James,
When one is talking about salvation, one must address Justification and Sanctification. One is "Believe and thou shalt be saved", the other is "If you believe, you will do My will, walk in My ways, follow Me....."

Justification is the beginning of your walk with Christ. And to walk With Him is Active. We have choices to make and a believer is "a doer of the Word", does the works of the law, not to be saved, but because he is saved.

The Spirit of Prophecy quotes above are quite clear....can you comment on them please.

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen
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"God calls for a living, straightforward testimony to be borne.Testimonies have been borne, but a new impulse must be given to the work. Jesus Christ is the Captain of the Lord's host. He must be recognized as the leader. All who heed the works, "Follow Me," will reveal the fruit of
obedience. The ground upon which we are to stand unitedly in doing God's service is that the Bible is the true guide, and not the idle sophistry of men. The Bible is our Counselor, and is to be obeyed. Justification by faith is the article of our true standing in the sight of God. Sanctification through the Holy Spirit binds up man's will and purpose with the will and purpose of God. If we have not these features in our experience, the church will be sickly and feeble. The safety of God's people is in coming to His living Word. When no human authority is put before this Word, then will men unite in gospel harmony, for the doing of the Word binds heart to heart, causing the workers to blend as one in Christ Jesus. The living oracles are fresh and beautiful. To study them is to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God."

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Charlene Van Hook ]

James wrote:

quote:

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Many believes that love=the 10th Cs, but unfortunately they are deadly wrong.

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Well, the apostle John wrote, "This is love, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

I believe I'll go along with the apostle! It would be deadly to do otherwise.

[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: John ]

Amen John

1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

James wrote:

"So, obedience to the law or our works really are so important and might be added to the works Christ has done for us in order we may live eternally in heaven."

This is an unfortunate piece of logic that all too often people believe. But in reality, obedience is the result of being in covenant relationship with Jesus.

Our part is simply to come to Jesus just as we are, and His part is to empower us to, Go and sin no more. As we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man, we do not and cannot sin. 1 John 3:9.

Paul wrote: "... obedience [leads] unto righteousness." Rom 6:16. We cannot experience the gift of righteousness by faith without first experiencing the gift of obedience by faith. Obedience is doing nothing wrong, whereas righteousness is doing everything right.

We are not saved because Jesus empowers us to live without sin, rather He is able to empower us to obey the law unto righteousness because we have accepted the salvation He wrought out for us on the cross.

It is impossible to separate salvation, obedience and righteousness. Like the holy Trinity, they coexist in fellowship. When we accept Jesus as our personal Saviour, we also become "partakers of His holiness." Heb 12:10.

[ May 27, 2002, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

Avalee.

Sorry, miss-typing. It should be read Romans 4:4,5.

So, what is your comment?

In His love

James S.

No one answers to Romans 4:4,5. Why? Or do you feel that these verses is against your concept of works has a value in your salvation?

As I have seen from your replies that works (obedience to the law) is important and has a value in working your way to heaven, but these verses told us the contrary. If there is any value in our works of obedience that may be counted for our fitness to heaven, then grace is no longer grace and salvation is no longer a gift but a reward.

Any comment?

In His love

James S.

John.

In the whole book of John I didn’t find any indication that Christ believers must keep the Ten Commandments. But surely I found that Christ believers must “love each other” (John 13:34; 15:12,17).

This is the command that Christ has given us through John, which we must keep and obey.

Is it the same with the Ten Commandments? Is “love” = the Ten Commandments?

Love (agape – seeks no self in it) is God character, the Ten Commandment is a written law in human terms based on this love. The Ten Commandments it self is not “love”, but it has the principle of love.

People may keep and obey the whole Ten perfectly but without love. The reason he keeps and obeys it is based on his self-love nature. For example; he didn’t steal and didn’t kill because he will not get catch by the Police, put in jail and maybe ended with many years in prison or ended on the electric chair. He keeps the commandments because he is afraid for sinning, he keeps the commandments in order to live righteously and may enter heaven and have eternal life. There are many reasons, but all is based on the principle of self.

But when some one has love in his heart, he will live in harmony with the law and it principle.

Love is fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22), imparted in the hearts of Christ’s believers who lived by faith and after the Spirit. It is a ministry of the Spirit that gives life and brings righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,9). “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” – 2 Corinthians 3:17.
A freedom from what? Freedom from sin of self-love! Only by living after the Spirit, a believer might have the love of God in his heart that will wipe out his self-love so that he might love his fellow men. He then has the righteousness of the law fulfilled in him (Romans 8:4), a righteousness that brought life.

But what is said about the Ten Commandments and its ministry?
“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious……………………….How shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory……………….For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious” – 2 Corinthians 3:6-11 (KJV).

See the difference between love and the Ten commandments?
Love gives life, love gives righteousness, love is fruit of the Spirit, the ministry of the Spirit is more glorious and remains till end of time.

The letter kills, keeping the law brings condemnation and death, the law is less glorious, the law was done away.

Here is more;

“The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law” – 1 Corinthians 15:56.
Keeping the law empowers the sin in us and produced death (Romans 7:13).
“Once I was alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death” – Romans 7:9-11 (NIV).

And many more.

Do you see the difference now between love and the Ten Commandments, do you still believe that love = the Ten commandments, and do you also believe that what Christ commanded through John is to keep the Ten Commandments?

“For the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ” – John 1:17 (NIV).
“The law and the prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and every one is forcing his way into it” – Luke 16:16 (NIV).
(The law as a whole was since Moses till John, it didn’t bring life and righteousness but condemnation and death. But since the cross, the gospel of Christ about grace and truth that brings life and righteousness was preached).
“A new command I give you; Love one another; As I have loved you, so you must love one another” – Romans 13:34 (NIV).
“My command is this; Love each other as I have loved you” – John 15:12 (NIV).
“This is my command; Love each other” – John 15:17 (NIV).

In His love

James S.