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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46907
10/16/03 12:56 AM
10/16/03 12:56 AM
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quote: Do you believe Jesus amended the law of God, or do you believe He upheld the law and that it was the Jews who made the law of God of none effect by amending it?
Not one Jot, not on Tittle (John 5)
quote: Do you believe the words fornication and adultery always and only mean physical sexual intercourse, or do you believe they also include spiritual forms of unfaithfulness?
Yes, it can be more then Sexual. All sin has Spiritual impacts.
quote: Do you agree that God divorced Israel on account of her spiritual unfaithfulness to the marriage vows (covenant)? And do you agree that it involved one believer (God) divorcing another believer (Israel) and that God was free to remarry, and that He married the Church?
NO WAY! The Bible teaches no such teaching! God unlike us sometimes is ABLE TO FORGIVE. We are ONE human race. The Church is all followers of God in all ages; OT and NT see REV 12
quote: Do you agree that God divorced Israel on account of her spiritual unfaithfulness to the marriage vows (covenant)? And do you agree that it involved one believer (God) divorcing another believer (Israel) and that God was free to remarry, and that He married the Church?
Truthfully i have never studied it in detail. But anytime God Gives you an order it is NOT sin to do as instructed, infact it be sin to refuse it.
quote: Do you believe an abandoned or abused wife must remain unmarried and childless if her husband does not or cannot commit physical adultery? Or do you believe that in such cases women must suck it up and bear their losses faithfully?
Why Wife? Why not Wife or Husband?
Here is the problem as i see it; the bible is silent on such issues. So there is no real way of knowing. I think that is why we have Elders, Pastors and Conferences, to seriously pray of individual cases like this, much like in the old days of Judges. I don't think there is one rule that will fit all. Alot of time it has to do with the motive and factors involved. I think God did not say anything because if He did, He knew we being human would abuse the rule.
Still this is NO reason to jump to conclusions.
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46908
10/22/03 08:22 PM
10/22/03 08:22 PM
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It seems that if we take Paul to be inspired, then we have to accept his direction in 1 Cor 7:15 as also being from God. If this is the case, then I think Paul was indicating that Jesus command regarding divorce did not address the unequally yoked issue. As such, Paul stating that a believer is not “bound” it an unbelieving spouse leaves is not in conflict with Jesus commands about divorce.
So after some study and a lot of prayer I believe that it is scriptural to believe that if a unbelieving spouse leaves the believing spouse is free to remarry.
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46909
11/04/03 12:27 PM
11/04/03 12:27 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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And thus you have fallen from grace to being under the law. This is precisely how it is done.
Thus people would rather have RULES. Some, what you can do, some, what you can't. But it all amounts to 'how to justify one's own actions', and what man thinks/concludes is acceptable with God. Having learned from the Lord is no replacement for the Living Lord.
Shalom
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46910
11/04/03 01:34 PM
11/04/03 01:34 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Lobo, thank you. I agree wholeheartedly with your studied conclusions on abandonment, divorce and remarriage.
Vincent, I also agree with your observation that God purposely did not instruct us on every minute detail regarding divorce and remarriage.
I believe the main purpose for the laws governing divorce and remarriage is to prevent wanton, careless, caloused divorces. They were never meant to prevent legitimate cases where divorce and remarriage is right and needful.
Divorce is necessary in cases where the purpose of marriage is not being fulfilled. God designed marriage to be a beautiful thing, an awesome experience, a way for Him to showcase His love for created beings.
But when a hard hearted spouse refuses to live at peace the purpose of marriage is defiled. Because of the sinfulness of man not everyone can or desires to live at peace with their spouse. And God has made a way of escape - divorce and remarriage.
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46911
11/05/03 02:16 AM
11/05/03 02:16 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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I agree Mike that it is because of the hardness of the heart, that any rules come in.
The question is, how many Marriages does one have to go through, because of the hardness of the heart?
Man has truly missed his greatest blessing in Marriage. What is that?
Here is the problem:
Men try to join things together, while it lasts, then I guess it was a mistake, try again etc.
Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
God never intended it that way!
Here is God's solution
What therefore God hath joined together let not man put asunder.
What is a heart that is not hard? It is one that seeketh not it's own, that chooses not it's own.
It is God that needs to make the twain one. No one else can. But that is only possible when the heart delights to do his will. If one desires a spouse, then let such ask of God. God delights to give good gifts. Regardless of circumstances, let such seek audience with their heavenly Father and ask of him, and receive such as God chooses. Then there shall never be any need for these rules because of the hardness of the heart.
The Lord will make such a one fit to be a husband or wife and then will give a wife or husband, a blessing as only he can do. The twain shall be one.
It is his delight to be favored with such a request.
Shall we choose for our selves, and then make rules. If we ask of God and receive from him, that is grace, we need no rules.
Shalom
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46912
11/05/03 05:34 PM
11/05/03 05:34 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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John, beautifully put. Amen!
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46913
11/05/03 06:00 PM
11/05/03 06:00 PM
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John,
unfortunately we are not perfect and people do make mistakes. Many times we pay for our lack of restraint of our youth. The “rules” are there because we are born sinners. We are not born with soft hearts that naturally seek God. That is why Jesus called it being "born agai"! Get it?
So while your utopian view is technically correct, it doesn’t seem to allow for the real world we live in. Certainly the goal, once we are able to realize it, is to let God lead us in the choice of a spouse, but many do not understand this or cannot understand this in their current spiritual state.
I look back now, and sure, if I had to do it over again I would have done things differently. However, I CAN’T GO BACK!
So all I can do is learn from the past and go forward and not make the same mistakes. God will indeed lead me in this effort, while in the past that was not the case.
So while I wholeheartedly wish I could have understood this the first time, that is not my reality today and nothing I can do to change that.
So while the rules may not be there for you, and I certainly hope that is the case for all believers, they are there for me (a sinner) and I thank God for them!
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46914
11/05/03 11:35 PM
11/05/03 11:35 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Lobo,
It is not what was done in the past that is the issue. True without the Lord we suffer much. But the issue is TODAY. TODAY, we do not need rules to tell us what to do about the mess we got into. But today we may go to our heavenly Father with all our mess; most of all our messy self, and lay it at his feet. Let him cleanse us heart soul and mind, and receive from him such, as we have not dreamed of.
How sad it is to watch people muddle around trying to fix things. When we make mistakes, that is least of times we need rules. What we need at that time, more than ever (if that is possible) is to come to our Lord. The master maker is waiting, but it takes surrendering all our desires to him, so that he can give us the desires of our heart.
If you would like I can share what the Lord has done for my wife and I in this regard.
Shalom [ November 05, 2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: John Boskovic ]
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46915
11/06/03 02:41 PM
11/06/03 02:41 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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It is a beautiful thing when couples are able to salvage a troubled marriage by relying on Jesus. I love all those stories and testimonies about couples who were heading toward divorce but by the grace of God and through prayer and patience they pulled off a miracle. Thank you Jesus! Sad to say though these stories are rare and few between. But thank God when they are told. I love it.
But on the other hand I am equally impressed with the stories where an abused or abandoned spouse recovers from their loss, works through the pain and trusts the Lord to supply all their wants and needs. In time the perfect person comes along and the magic of marriage happens again and wedding bells ring unto the honor and glory of God. And the newly weds live happily ever after. That's my story. Thank you Jesus!
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Re: Five Questions on the Divorce & Remarriage Issue
#46916
11/07/03 03:35 AM
11/07/03 03:35 AM
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John, I appreciate your point, it’s just that no one can change another heart. Only God can do that.
So if one is unequally yoked all the believer can do is hold on to God and that relationship. But at these times, when you are searching for answers, the direction that God did leave in scripture about these issues is very comforting and not seen as “rules”.
Based on your post I suspect that you have never gone through this type of thing, and I don’t wish that on anyone.
In any case, I also appreciate Mike’s post as I can tell he understands my pain as he has been there himself. [ November 06, 2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Lobo ]
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