Tammy, this is MM. You were responding to my post in your last post, not Tom. My questions about Jesus and jealousy and pride have more to do with me than Pastor Preibe. I believe Jesus possessed and manifested godly pride and jealousy. I also believe He was tempted from within, in the same way we are, to satisfy His innocent and legitimate needs is sinful ways. Do you agree?

My questions are based on the idea that all temptations are, in one way or another, a distortion of innocent and legitimate needs. Our appetites and passions are gifts that God gave us to be employed unto His honor and glory. But our sinful flesh nature perverts them. We become consciously aware of them as temptations to satisfy our innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways.

Here’s how Sister White describes it:

3T 84
You are of that age when the will, the appetite, and the passions clamor for indulgence. God has implanted these in your nature for high and holy purposes. It is not necessary that they should become a curse to you by being debased. They will become this only when you refuse to submit to the control of reason and conscience. (3T 84)

Do you believe Jesus was born with the same appetites and passions that God implanted in us for high and holy purposes? Or, do you believe He was somehow different than us, that His sinful flesh never perverted His appetites and passions, that His sinful flesh never clamored for sinful indulgence?

Please understand that I am not implying that Jesus was ever guilty of wanting to fulfill the sinful desires or clamorings that His fallen flesh communicated to His pure and holy mind and conscience. All that I'm asking is if you believe Jesus' appetites and passions ever clamored for indulgence in the same way ours do? Or, was He somehow different than us in that regard?

Rosangela, I agree. There is no such thing as godly selfishness. But do you agree that there forms of pride and jealously that are godly?

Mike,

quote:

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Rosangela, I agree. There is no such thing as godly selfishness. But do you agree that there forms of pride and jealously that are godly?

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All of these are human passions: love, hate, pride, jealousy, ambition; and they can be positive or negative. Adam possessed them, in the same way as we do. The problem is that in Adam all of them were positive, while in us they are by birth negatively affected, in a greater or lesser degree.

Is there even a single usage in inspiration where "pride" is used in a positive sense?

Tom,

As I said in the past, Christ denied Himself in heaven. He didn't want to leave His Father, He didn't want to leave the purity of heaven and come to a world full of sin and misery, and become subject to suffering and finally die, but He denied Himself because He loved us.

It is possible to feel proud of children or another relative who has noble traits of character. It is possible to be proud of something beautiful you've made. I think God was proud of His creation after He finished it. I've found two positive references in Ellen White:

I am going to the convention in Tasmania," wrote Ellen White to her son Edson," and to witness and participate in the marriage of my son Willie to a noble Christian woman. . . . If Providence favors, you will have a sister of whom you will be proud."--Letter 92b, 1895. {4BIO 188.1}

You cannot think how pleasant it is to have my family once more reunited. I have not seen more capable, ready, willing, obedient children than Ella May and Mabel. . . . Dear little children. May is proud of them.--Letter 124, 1895. {4BIO 198.3}

Of course pride could also be taken only in the negative sense, as the opposite of humility.

Rosangela, good job on finding those references. However, these speak of "proud" not "pride." One could argue, of course, that if one can be proud in a positive sense, one can have pride in a positive sense. But I would still be interested in "pride" could be found in a positive sense. EGW wrote millions of words, and I'm sure she used the word "pride" many, many times. Her lack of use in a positive sense might be significant.

OTOH, it might not be. "Pride" is custumarily used by her as a sin, and the worse of sins at that. One could say something like "I take pride in God's acheivements," and that would certainly be positive. Perhapse she wrote something like that.

Well, thanks for finding that and sharing your thoughts.