Tom, how do you define "evil"?

Depending on the context, it could be something morally objectionable, or the results of sin. Those are two definions which come quickly to mind anyway.

Poison oak, for example, causes a rash when touched, a result of the curse.

A result of the curse, a result of sin. Yes.

But what about the glory of God? It kills people, right?

The glory of God is His character. To sin, whereever it is found, God is a consuming fire. This is a direct cause of sin, not God. God is just being Himself; that is, love. That His love causes death could hardly be blamed on Him. It's the result of sin. Please remember that the same thing which causes the death of the wicked gives life to the righteous. This makes it clear that the problem is with the wicked; their destruction is not due to some arbitrary, or imposed, act of God. The same thing which causes the death of the wicked gives life to the righteous. Please bear that in mind.

My point is just because something bad happens doesn't mean it is evil.

It's the result of evil. God doesn't do bad things. God is good. He does good things.

Evil is in the eyes of the beholder. What we call evil, holy angels rejoice over.

Only if we're confused about what evil is. Holy angels do not rejoice over evil. They follow the principle of agape.

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4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.(1 Cor 13 NKJV)

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The results of the seven last plagues are considered evil by some,

According to the Spirit of Prophecy, they are caused Satan:

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I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress, and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey. And storm and tempest both by sea and land will be, for Satan has come down in great wrath. He is at work. He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of. {14MR 3.1}

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Do you really think the holy angels are rejoicing at the work of Satan? I respectfully suggest that you're missing something here.

I looked at Revelation 16, and didn't see anything like what you are suggesting. They testify to God's righteousness. The Scriptures often present God as doing that which He permits, and the Spirit of Prophecy goes into much detail in GC 35, 36 to explain this principle. She applies the destruction of Jerusalem to the last plagues. That is, the same principles are at work, which are the principles laid out in the quote I cited above. When the wicked continually resist the Spirit of God, there comes a time when He will at last withdraw, leaving them to the results of their choice. The angels in Rev. 16 testify that God is righteous in so doing. I agree with these angels. I hasten to add that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, as He Himself points out. (Ezek. 33:11)

Tom, when I read the Bible I get the distinct impression that Jesus employs holy angels to pour out the seven last plagues. Are you suggesting the angels in the following passages are evil?

Revelation 15
5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: 6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles. 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

I addressed your question in my previous post, last paragraph. I also asked you a question, which you may feel free to answer. I'd also like to ask you an additional question. Do you agree with EGW's explanation of the plauges? That they are caused by Satan?

Do you mean to say that the holy angels in Rev 15 and 16 symbolize evil angels? Also, where did Sister White say that the seven last plagues are caused by evil angels? I realize Jesus gives evil angels permission, from time to time, to use nature to cause trouble, but where does she say evil angels cause the plagues? I'm not saying she doesn't, I'm just asking where. The quote you posted above isn't talking about the seven last plagues.

Do you mean to say that the holy angels in Rev 15 and 16 symbolize evil angels? Also, where did Sister White say that the seven last plagues are caused by evil angels? I realize Jesus gives evil angels permission, from time to time, to use nature to cause trouble, but where does she say evil angels cause the plagues? I'm not saying she doesn't, I'm just asking where. The quote you posted above isn't talking about the seven last plagues.

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He knows his time is short and, if he is not restrained, we shall see more terrible manifestations of his power than we have ever dreamed of.

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You don't think this is referring to the last plagues? Do you think the seven last plagues are even more terrible manifestations of his power that are beyond those which are beyond what we have ever dreamed of? I quoted several other references as well. I'll cite them for your convenience:

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When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. (GC 614)

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The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens, and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future. The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults, conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),-- what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. (GC 36, 37)

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Regarding the angels of Rev. 15 and 16, these are symbols. They are not speaking of literal angels literally pouring out vials. These symbols are describing the events explained by the Spirit of Prophecy. She explains what is actually happening, which is that God withdraws His protection, after being stubbornly resisted. The terrible things that happen are a result of Satan's power being unleashed. You see this, don't you?

Tom, are the angels mentioned in the following verses symbolic of evil angels, too?

Revelation
16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

MM, I can't tell if you're reading what I'm writing. You keep ansking the same questions over and over, yet don't answer any of my questions.

Please answer the questions I've asked you, and then I'll answer this one of yours.

Thank you.

TE - Do you really think the holy angels are rejoicing at the work of Satan?

MM – They rejoice that Jesus gives evil angels permission to fulfill His will. They understand that evil angels cannot do anything more or less than what Jesus permits.

TE - Do you agree with EGW's explanation of the plauges? That they are caused by Satan? … You don't think this is referring to the last plagues? Do you think the seven last plagues are even more terrible manifestations of his power that are beyond those which are beyond what we have ever dreamed of? … The terrible things that happen are a result of Satan's power being unleashed. You see this, don't you?

MM – I’m not convinced that’s what she means. Yes, evil angels have control over those people who receive the MOB, but it seems to me that holy angels are the ones pouring out the seven last vials of plagues. That's why I keep asking if you believe what John wrote in the Revelation about holy angels causing the plagues and rejoicing at the will of God is symbolic of evil angels. You have made it clear that's exactly what you believe.

Tom, as I read this description of the plagues I have a hard time accepting your interpretation of the plagues.

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God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}

When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}

In the plague that follows, power is given to the sun "to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat." Verses 8, 9. The prophets thus describe the condition of the earth at this fearful time: "The land mourneth; . . . because the harvest of the field is perished. . . . All the trees of the field are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men." "The seed is rotten under their clods, the garners are laid desolate. . . . How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture. . . . The rivers of water are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness." "The songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord God: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence." Joel 1:10-12, 17-20; Amos 8:3. {GC 628.1}

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It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying: "It is done." Revelation 16:17. {GC 636.2}

That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. There is a mighty earthquake, "such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." Verses 17, 18. The firmament appears to open and shut. The glory from the throne of God seems flashing through. The mountains shake like a reed in the wind, and ragged rocks are scattered on every side. There is a roar as of a coming tempest. The sea is lashed into fury. There is heard the shriek of a hurricane like the voice of demons upon a mission of destruction. The whole earth heaves and swells like the waves of the sea. Its surface is breaking up. Its very foundations seem to be giving way. Mountain chains are sinking. Inhabited islands disappear. The seaports that have become like Sodom for wickedness are swallowed up by the angry waters. Babylon the great has come in remembrance before God, "to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath." Great hailstones, every one "about the weight of a talent," are doing their work of destruction. Verses 19, 21. The proudest cities of the earth are laid low. The lordly palaces, upon which the world's great men have lavished their wealth in order to glorify themselves, are crumbling to ruin before their eyes. Prison walls are rent asunder, and God's people, who have been held in bondage for their faith, are set free. {GC 636.3}

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Thick clouds still cover the sky; yet the sun now and then breaks through, appearing like the avenging eye of Jehovah. Fierce lightnings leap from the heavens, enveloping the earth in a sheet of flame. Above the terrific roar of thunder, voices, mysterious and awful, declare the doom of the wicked. The words spoken are not comprehended by all; but they are distinctly understood by the false teachers. Those who a little before were so reckless, so boastful and defiant, so exultant in their cruelty to God's commandment-keeping people, are now overwhelmed with consternation and shuddering in fear. Their wails are heard above the sound of the elements. Demons acknowledge the deity of Christ and tremble before His power, while men are supplicating for mercy and groveling in abject terror. {GC 637.2}

Said the prophets of old, as they beheld in holy vision the day of God: "Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty." Isaiah 13:6. "Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon everyone that is proud and lofty, and upon everyone that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low." "In that day a man shall cast the idols of his silver, and the idols of his gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth." Isaiah 2:10-12, 20, 21, margin. {GC 638.1}

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"The Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants 0f the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain." Isaiah 26:21. "And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold everyone on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor." Zechariah 14:12, 13. In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall the wicked inhabitants of the earth--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried." Jeremiah 25:33. {GC 656.3}

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I wrote this: Regarding the angels of Rev. 15 and 16, these are symbols. They are not speaking of literal angels literally pouring out vials. These symbols are describing the events explained by the Spirit of Prophecy.

You wrote this: That's why I keep asking if you believe what John wrote in the Revelation about holy angels causing the plagues and rejoicing at the will of God is symbolic of evil angels. You have made it clear that's exactly what you believe.

I'm confused as to how you can confuse something I've not said as all to be something that I "clearly" believe.

I've quoted 14MR3, which apparently you don't think is dealing with the seven last plagues. I have no idea as to what you think this is applying to, but I also quoted GC 36 and GC 641.

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When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. The restraint which has been upon the wicked is removed, and Satan has entire control of the finally impenitent. God's long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one. Satan will then plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old. (GC 641)

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Surely this is dealing with the seven last plagues, isn't it?

So to answer your question, Rev. 15 and 16 are desribing the same events GC 641 is describing. Do you think Ellen White clearly believed the angels in Rev. 15 and 16 were evil angels? I'm just quoting her. I'm not believing anything different than what she did.

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They rejoice that Jesus gives evil angels permission to fulfill His will.

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This is pure Augustine. This is not Seventh-day Adventism and never has been. The destruction, maiming, suffering and death caused by Satan is not God's will. Just look at Christ's life, and you can see how God hates these things and fought against them.

God cries out, "How can I give you up?" He loves His children more than we love ours. How would you feel to see one of your children injured or afflicted by a disease. Would you rejoice? Do you think God and the angels are less caring and loving than we are? Do they have no feelings of sympathy?