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Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48561
12/05/00 02:48 PM
12/05/00 02:48 PM
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Somebody told me that Martial Arts is of the devil. If that is so, then should we be involved in that as Christians? Can anybody enlighten me on that? _____________________________________________
"For God so loved Daryl Fawcett that He gave His only
Begotten Son that....." Daryl 
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48562
12/05/00 06:23 PM
12/05/00 06:23 PM
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Actually, there was a discussion in our lunchroom at work today about Tae Kwon Do and other martial arts. To be honest, I have no idea whether this is appropriate or not. I know that I always approach the idea with caution, because the martial arts history is associated with heathen worship practices (eg. Buddhist? monks being the founders of Kung Fu) and there is much in the practice that relates to using the powers of your mind over the body, using the chi and chen? of the earth to assist you, etc. Granted, I have not studied this indepth, but this is my limited understanding and therefore my hesitation respecting the study and practice of martial arts. ------------------
Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48563
12/05/00 10:54 PM
12/05/00 10:54 PM
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Charter Member
2500+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
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Sarah is correct that Kung Fu originated with Buddhist monks in China. It is very much bound up with their religious practices. While I will need to look more, Kung Fu is centered around the chi, which, as closely as I can figure, is related to the Hindu kundalini(SP?), the serpent coiled at the base of the spine. Kung Fu is also the basis of the other martial arts such as judo, karate, jujitsu, all of which I believe are Japanese, and tae kwon do which is Korean. The masters of these various forms of the martial arts are actively involved in meditation and worship of pagan ideas and deities. The martial arts are not for true Bible believing Christians. ------------------
________________________
Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48564
12/06/00 01:59 PM
12/06/00 01:59 PM
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The nature of the martial arts are multi fold. Far beyond combat. 1. Combat training
2. Breathing excercises that regulate energy flow through the body and open the mind to receive the entities the energies come from.
3. Disciple ship to a human mortal.
4. Through the physical & mental trainings - discipleship to the sources of the energies being obtained & regulated.
5. Occult philosophies under sanitized western names become the new life philosophy.
6. Eastern beliefs take over the persons prior belief system.
7. Fighting & combat becomes a series of spiritual journeys.
8. Pride & the desire for conquest of others is encouraged and built into the new mental outlook.
9. Self is the focus.
10.Dojo becomes your church. Martal arts your mission, converting others to martal arts philosophy your evangelistic message. Eastern wisdom is prized higher than any other, in time; till the Bible is finally ignored or become lesser that the Eastern wisdoms. This is what I have seen over the years, plus the Martial Arts spiritual training is sanitized westernized occult worship and progressive training. They have many common threads. I came out of the Occult & Eastern Mystisms. ------------------
Edward F Sutton
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48565
12/06/00 04:03 PM
12/06/00 04:03 PM
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Have any of the above posters actually trained or studied the martial arts? Much of what was posted above is true; the martial arts, in their upper levels, do deal with mind control/earth energies/pagen worship. However, they also deal with simple physical movements in no way related to anything subversive or religious. Many practitioners and teachers studiously avoid any meditation/mind control/eastern mystic/etc. in their teaching. Anything can be made into a religion, including religion.
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48566
12/08/00 12:57 AM
12/08/00 12:57 AM
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Charter Member
2500+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
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Can the martial arts ever by Christian or Christianized? Can they be sanitized from their pagan origins? I visited several martial arts web pages. I preferred those that were .org or .edu. The .org pages were usually from federations. Here, from those pages, is how they describe and explain themselves and the arts they practice and teach. quote:
TAE KWON DO is literally from the Korean, Tae which means "to kick" or to strike with the foot, Kwon means "fist" or to strike with the hand, Do means "discipline or art". In other words, TaeKwonDo is an art of kicking and punching. The art of unarmed combat. . . . This art is far more than simply a system concerned with physical prowess, for it is also an art directed toward the moral development of the student. ------------------------- HAPKIDO basic techniques consist of kicking, striking, joint breaking, throws and locks. Both soft and hard blocks, nerve and muscle pressure attacks are used. Self defense skills include weapons such as a walking cane or a baton. Techniques are based on the theories of dynamic spinning and the joining of the opponent (contact). ------------------------ The ultimate aim of KARATE lies not in victory or defeat, but in the perfection of the character of its participants.- Gichin Funakoshi ------------------------ Some 1500 years ago in the Hunan province of China, Shao-lin monks wanted to live in isolation, pursuing the peaceful teachings of Buddha. In order to protect their freedom in a land filled with violence, they developed a powerful system of self-preservation. This system was based on the avoidance of conflict and the cultivation of mind, body, and spirit. Today KUNG FU continues to fill a need in western society to combat stress and strengthen personal health and character. This web page is dedicated to those who wish to pursue a better way of life through the cultivation of the mind, body, and spirit. ----------------------- JUDO was established in 1882 in Japan as a modern sport by Professor Jigoro Kano (1860- 1938) who was well aware of modern pedagogic and physical ideals. The formula of techniques of various jujitsu schools, which have been Japanese combative arts and systematized for hundreds of years were selected, refined, created and finally established as modern combative sports. . . . the primary objective of practicing Judo is perfection of character. And to perfect one's character one must be grateful for the abundant blessings of Heaven, Earth, and Nature, as well as for the great love of parents; one must realize his enormous debt to teachers and be ever mindful of his obligations to the general public.
--------------------- Modern SHUAI-CHIAO (competing to throw) is the culmination of the ancient, crude, practical and effective combat grappling method of the battlefield - that has evolved into a sophisticated and efficient no non-sense approach to combat. . . . Shuai-chiao's techniques are the culmination of tested grappling experience in the best environment - the battlefield. Today, it is still a part of military and police training as well as a national sport in China and Taiwan.
Some personal observations about martial arts. 1. Some symbols frequently associated with marital arts are Yin yang and closed punching fist. 2. First and foremost, the martial arts is the art of war, of hand to hand combat, of subduing and defeating your opponent and your enemy. 3. The most learned and greatest teachers of these arts are always called "Master." In some, they are referred to as "Holiness." 4. In the 60's I had friends and class mates who were studying the martial arts, mainly jujitsu. When they reached a certain level, they had to register with the police as their hands were considered a lethal weapon. ------------------
________________________
Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48567
12/08/00 11:58 AM
12/08/00 11:58 AM
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I got this off the internet. How about letting Martial Arts Masters, teachers, practitioners speak for themselves. After reading these things go to the Bible & read it's declarations. You will by your actions decide who to trust.
Quote begins:The Art of Peace
Morihei Ueshiba
Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) was history's greatest martial artist. He was the founder of Aikido, which can be translated as "The Art of Peace." Morihei Ueshiba is referred to by the practitioners of Aikido as O-Sensei, "The Great Teacher". The following quotations have been compiled from O-Sensei's collected talks, poems, and calligraphy, and from oral tradition.
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One
The Art of Peace begins with you. Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your inner divinity and manifest your innate enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter
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Two
One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train.
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Three
All things, material and spiritual, originate from one source and are related as if they were one family. The past, present, and future are all contained in the life force. The universe emerged and developed from one source, and we evolved through the optimal process of unification and harmonization.
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Four
The Art of Peace is medicine for a sick world. There is evil and disorder in the world because people have forgotten that all things emanate from one source. Return to that source and leave behind all self-centered thoughts, petty desires, and anger. Those who are possessed by nothing possess everything.
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Five
If you have not
Linked yourself
To true emptiness,
You will never understand
The Art of Peace.
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Six
The Art of Peace functions everywhere on earth, in realms ranging from the vastness of space down to the tiniest plants and animals. The life force is all-pervasive and its strength boundless. The Art of Peace allows us to percieve and tap into that tremendous reserve of universal energy.
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Seven
Eight forces sustain creation:
Movement and stillness,
Solidification and fluidity,
Extension and contraction,
Unification and division.
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Eight
Life is growth. If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead. The Art of Peace is a celebration of the bonding of heaven, earth, and humankind. It is all that is true, good, and beautiful.
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Nine
Now and again, it is necessary to seclude yourself among deep mountains and hidden valleys to restore your link to the source of life. Breathe in and let yourself soar to the ends of the universe; breathe out and bring the cosmos back inside. Next, breathe up all fecundity and vibrancy of the earth. Finally, blend the breath of heaven and the breath of earth with your own, becoming the Breath of Life itself.
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Ten
All the priciples of heaven and earth are living inside you. Life itself is the truth, and this will never change. Everything in heaven and earth breathes. Breath is the thread that ties creation together. When the myriad variations in the universal breath can be sensed, the individual techniques of the Art of Peace are born.
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Eleven
Consider the ebb and flow of the tide. When waves come to strike the shore, they crest and fall, creating a sound. your breath should follow the same pattern, absorbing the entire universe in your belly with each inhalation. Know that we all have access to four treasures: the energy of the sun and moon, the breath of heaven, the breath of earth, and the ebb and flow of the tide.
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Twelve
Those who practice the Art of Peace must protect the domain of Mother Nature, the divine reflection of creation, and keep it lovely and fresh. Warriorship gives birth to natural beauty. The subtle techniques of a warrior arise as naturally as the appearence of spring, summer, autumn, and winter. Warriorship is none other than the vitality that sustains all life.
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Thirteen
When life is victorious, there is birth; when it is thwarted, there is death. A warrior is always engaged in a life-and-death struggle for Peace.
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Fourteen
Contemplate the workings of this world, listen to the words of the wise, and take all that is good as your own. With this as your base, open your own door to truth. Do not overlook the truth that is right before you. Study how water flows in a valley stream, smoothly and freely between the rocks. Also learn from holy books and wise people. Everything - even mountains, rivers, plants and trees - should be your teacher.
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Fifteen
Create each day anew by clothing yourself with heaven and earth, bathing yourself with wisdom and love, and placing yourself in the heart of Mother Nature.
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Sixteen
Do not fail
To learn from
The pure voice of an
Ever-flowing mountain stream
Splashing over the rocks.
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Seventeen
Peace originates with the flow of things - its heart is like the movement of the wind and waves. The Way is like the veins that circulate blood through our bodies, following the natural flow of the life force. If you are seperated in the slightest from that divine essence, you are far off the path.
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Eighteen
Your heart is full of fertile seeds, waiting to sprout. Just as a lotus flower springs from the mire to bloom splendidly, the interaction of the cosmic breath causes the flower of the spirit to bloom and bear fruit in this world.
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Nineteen
Study the teachings of the pine tree, the bamboo, and the plum blossom. The pine is evergreen, firmly rooted, and venerable. The bamboo is strong, resilient, unbreakable. The plum blossom is hardy, fragrant, and elegant.
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Twenty
Always keep your mind as bright and clear as the vast sky, the great ocean, and the highest peak, empty of all thoughts. Always keep your body filled with light and heat. Fill yourself with the power of wisdom and enlightenment.
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Twenty One
As soon as you concern yourself with the "good" and "bad" of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter. Testing, competing with, and criticizing others weaken and defeat you.
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Twenty Two
The penetrating brilliance of swords
Wielded by followers of the Way
Strikes at the evil enemy
Lurking deep within
Their own souls and bodies
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Twenty Three The Art of Peace is not easy. It is a fight to the finish, the slaying of evil desires and all falsehood within. on occasion the Voice of Peace resounds like thunder, jolting human beings out of their stupor.
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Twenty Four
Crystal clear,
Sharp and bright,
The sacred sword
Allows no opening
For evil to roost.
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Twenty Five To practice properly the Art of Peace, you must: Calm the spirit and return to the source. Cleanse the body and spirit by removing all malice, selfishness, and desire.
Be ever-grateful for the gifts received from the universe, your family, Mother Nature, and your fellow human beings.
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Twenty Six
The Art of Peace is based on Four Great Virtues: Bravery, Wisdom, Love, and Friendship, symbolized by Fire, Heaven, Earth, and Water.
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Twenty Seven
The essence of the Art of Peace is to cleanse yourself of maliciousness, to get in tune with your environment, and to clear your path of all obstacles and barriers.
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Twenty Eight
The only cure for materialism is the cleansing of the six senses (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and mind). If the senses are clogged, one's perception is stifled. The more it is stifled, the more contaminated the senses become. This creates disorder in the world, and that is the greatest evil of all. Polish the heart, free the six senses and let them function without obstruction, and your entire body and soul will glow.
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Twenty Nine
All life is a manifestation of the spirit, the manifestation of love. And the Art of Peace is the purest form of that principle. A warrior is charged with bringing a halt to all contention and strife. Universal love functions in many forms; each manifestation should be allowed free expression. The Art of Peace is true democracy.
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Thirty
Each and every master, regardless of the era or place, heard the call and attained harmony with heaven and earth. There are many paths leading to the top of Mount Fuji, but there is only one summit - love.
End of Quote :1. If man has inner divinity he does not need God & Jesus Christ. If this was true Satan would be our benifactor. "Ye shall be as Gods..." 2. If Heaven is right here, you do not need Redemption, Ressurection, The Second Coming. Jesus would be a liar for He spoke of the tree of life in the midst of the paridise of God. But if Heaven is here where is He & this tree of life? 3. Hold on to your hats, the "force" preceeded George Lucas. 4. Those who are lead by the Spirit Of God are possessed by Him(willingly), like wise those who are willingly possessed by Satan. 5. Emptiness is not a benign condition - Jesus talked a clean house being reinhabited by even more and worse demons because it was empty even though cleansed - still empty of the One Person who could insure it's safety. 6. Star Wars style panthism "force" again. Go through the Bible and find the texts and passages that tell a very different story than these demon inspired statements of eastern mystism. I'll add my own Eastern sounding inscrutable comment. When I was a male witch/warlock I was very much into eastern mystism. "When searching the way of knowledge and life. Go and learn from the warrior snakes of any lands. Powerful and strong feared and respected. Learn why they are so, study them closely and you will quickly learn and life shall become quickly clear." English translation: If you want to be so big, so bad, so MR Kung FU go check out the copper head. He's big, bad, hot attitude. Get real close and he'll tell you the secret. AS HE BITES YOU BETWEEN THE EYES REPEATEDLY. That was his secret, his deadly weapon and your life flashes before your eyes and your lights go out for the last time. Some things people don't need to know, some things people don't need to study, some things people need to stay away from. Could Martal Arts be one of them? The deadliest weapon the Martal Arts have is their spiritual training, it is hidden among the various physical disciplines just waiting and slipping the mental/spiritual changes into a person till radical changes have occured while the person was distracted by the other diciplines. It's a form of brain washing. The two fangs are the
1. Devotion & worship of human masters.
2. The physical diciplines that prepare the body for habitation by the spirits and their energies. The venom is the doctrines of devils suited and crafted for the purpose of harmonizing the human into the Satanic counterfit while deluding that same human into thinking they are attaining improvement. The aim is the settleing into variance with the teachings of the Bible which puts the person into war against the Author of the Bible. I once practiced those spiritual things the Martial Arts strive to attain to, therefore I say with actual experience that the Martial arts are a conduit into the occult. They are an indoctrination for people who would not go to the occult otherwise. A sanitized lure.
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Edward F Sutton
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48568
12/09/00 03:10 AM
12/09/00 03:10 AM
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Hello Durk I tend to agree with Linda on this one. I took some training in Shotokan Karate; and I can say from day one; there was a major emphasis on three things: 1)Character Development, 2) Physical Fitness, 3) How To "Defend" Yourself. They most definitely base their philosophy and practice on ancient, eastern religion; but in simple, layman's terms, after all the fancy talk is over, the above three items I mentioned are all centred around one thing: How To Kill or Seriously Injure Someone, In A Prescribed Way. I know Christians who justify their involvement in it because it does whip you into good physical shape; but for me, the end came when I had walked into the room one night; and the instructor, along with some of his cronies were glaring at me; and the situation appeared a bit menacing to say the least. Why? I had failed to bow down to the instructor (a sign of respect), and when I said I wouldn't do it; he used his character development training to not knock my head off: Asking me to leave instead. The interesting part is that I wasn't even a Christian then! I believe that seriously committed Christians are involved with martial arts; but that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing to be involved with. There are BETTER ways, in the Bible, to accomplish the above three goals! ------------------
"We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets; Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone!" (Eph.2:20). Your brother in Christ David T. Battler
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48569
12/08/00 04:04 PM
12/08/00 04:04 PM
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In my experience, having lived in the Far East, bowing is a form of respect and does not neccessarily imply worship. I have studied in 3 different schools in three disciplines and in all three the instructors have stressed that the first reaction to any situation is to RUN, WALK AWAY, or in some other way AVOID FIGHTING. Fighting is a last resort because everyone loses. Now, I know, each school is different, each emphasises a different aspect, and we cannot make a blanket statement about any of the forms, disciplines, or schools. But this has been my experience. No doubt or arguement about it, these "arts" are designed to kill, maim, and control. But they also strive to teach self control, and the avoidance of violence. Yes, there is a better way in the Bible, but remember that these arts arose from a pagan background; you must expect such things as self being the focus, power of the chi, etc. But we don't live in a perfect world. A police officer or even a teacher is expected to provide a safe environment, which cannot always be achieved by Bible study and prayer. And I am not mocking these. These people may also be Christians in every sense of the word, while at the same time applying an arm bar to an unruly student or escaping from a full-nelson applied by a drunk. Just some thoughts. [This message has been edited by Durk (edited December 08, 2000).]
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Re: Martial Arts And Christian Living
#48570
12/09/00 12:58 AM
12/09/00 12:58 AM
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I grew up in Korea and I never thought the martial arts were involved with heathen religion. In fact, when I was in high school I wanted to take the lesson. My father told me no, not because of relgious reason, but because I was still in high school and my primary goal as a student was to study. Elder Vasques in his New Ager book calls all martial arts are involved with spritism, he aslo states that accupucture, accupressure, etc are involved with new age movement. I seriousely doubt these therapy is involved with worship of spirit unless one carries that far. When I was in Korea I had some treatment done with accupucture, and I know a MD here who learned to do accupucture but no way he is involved with "new Age". When I was in Korea we never gave a thought including all adventists above these mentioned including martial arts were involved with any type of heathen religion. I guess I was ignorant or we never gave a thought on the matter as we were part of the society. As far as bowing down to some one is concerned, this is no way connected with worshiping any person. This is an expression of respect of that person. When I meet my father's friend on the street or any place else I must bow to him. We do not extend our hands to shake. In fact, this type of greeting was considered as unacceptable form of greetings or down right disrespectable form in my time in Korea many years ago. Bowing down in some degree is still practiced in Korean society here and over there. This is the custom, just like shaking hands or giving hugs. When one is ignorant of other culture all kinds of misunderstanding can happen. Won
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