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Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62768
12/20/05 03:27 AM
12/20/05 03:27 AM
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OP
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 275
Bahamas
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Hi all. This is a question raised by a friend on another SDA site. I think it is both timely and valid... quote:
Written by Walk In The Light>>
What of this statement, and the involvement of many of our leaders with ecumenists and opposers of our traditional message of Babylon being fallen?
"Among Adventists, the clear understanding of the term 'Babylon' is diminishing more and more and is giving way to confusion. A conference leader told me years ago that 'Babylon is in us.' My question, of how would it be possible under these circumstances to follow the call to leave Babylon, remained without an answer. Some other definitions, from Adventist publications are that Babylon is the 'wickedness of my city,' 'evil influences' and to 'attempt to gain salvation through one's own works.' Adventist Review, December 31, 1992; Signs of the Times, June 1992;
How is this attitude of rejection being displayed in your local congregation? What can we do about it?
"Worldly policy is taking the place of true piety and wisdom that comes from above, and God will remove His prospering hand from the conference. Shall the ark of the covenant be removed from this people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall false principles and false precepts be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist be respected? Shall the true doctrines and principles given us of God, which have made us what we are, be ignored?.... This is directly where the enemy, through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading us." E. G. White, Manuscript 29, 1890.
The question for us is:
Where are we right now?
--Ren
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62769
12/20/05 03:37 AM
12/20/05 03:37 AM
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OP
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 275
Bahamas
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Just a quick side note from myself. I have recently noticed more and more what looks like the Spirit of the Lord stirring His people to action.
Many are no longer waiting for marching orders from leadership (no disrespect), but are proclaiming the end time message in any venue that they can. Yet sadly, these workers are few in number.
It would seem that many of our people will indeed wait until it is much more difficult to work before they begin to work.
The messages of the Three Angels need to be proclaimed with a loud voice while there is still time.
May god give us all the means and the buring desire to do the work He has called us to do.
--Ren
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62770
12/20/05 01:43 AM
12/20/05 01:43 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Is the 3rd Angel's message not the 3 Angels' message, which is the same message joined with the 4th angel's loud cry?
Basically, Babylon isn't the focus of the message: the gospel is. For all the other's mention of Babylon, the 1st Angel proclaims the gospel and so the Babylonian Christianity out there is fallen because its gospel is false, bankrupt and corrupted. Looks more like the pure gospel proclamation is what brings a reaction from God's people in those denominations which don't have a correct grasp of the gospel, and they observe the truth that Babylon is fallen, is fallen. The secular world may yet be religiously aware enough to notice the difference but they do not repent, as per the merchants and kings and princes of Rev 18. The loud cry is a warning to the rest of Christiandom, if not the whole religious world.
Of course all non-religious people and non-believers are welcome still to accept the Gospel, but they are only definitely going to hear the Gospel explained to them.
The question that remains is whether we have a gospel message fit to challenge Babylon's gospel with. Should we, do we, did we have a gospel message capable of being present truth sufficient ethically to challenge the big boys?
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62771
12/22/05 04:57 PM
12/22/05 04:57 PM
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Well,
If the loud cry was given back around the time of the Millerite movement for precious souls to come out of Babylon, false religion, the rejection of the Sabbath truth and the imminence of the 2nd coming, then your definition no longer fits with this does it? It seems after reading your post that it doesn't. There must remain an adequate definition of who or what Babylon is and this is one of the central reasons for the SDA Church establishment. What is your definition of Babylon if it is not the historic definition?
Dennis
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62772
12/22/05 05:05 PM
12/22/05 05:05 PM
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Here is some helpful information on the definition of Babylon:
The woman (Babylon) of Revelation 17 is described as "arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness:...and upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots." Says the prophet: "I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Babylon is further declared to be "that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Revelation 17:4-6, 18. The power that for so many centuries maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom is Rome. The purple and scarlet color, the gold and precious stones and pearls, vividly picture the magnificence and more than kingly pomp affected by the haughty see of Rome. And no other power could be so truly declared "drunken with the blood of the saints" as that church which has so cruelly persecuted the followers of Christ. Babylon is also charged with the sin of unlawful connection with "the kings of the earth." It was by departure from the Lord, and alliance with the heathen, that the Jewish church became a harlot; and Rome, corrupting herself in like manner by seeking the support of worldly powers, receives a like condemnation. {GC 382.2}
Babylon is said to be "the mother of harlots." By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing
383
the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world. The message of Revelation 14, announcing the fall of Babylon must apply to religious bodies that were once pure and have become corrupt. Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. At the time of their rise these churches took a noble stand for God and the truth, and His blessing was with them. Even the unbelieving world was constrained to acknowledge the beneficent results that followed an acceptance of the principles of the gospel. In the words of the prophet to Israel: "Thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through My comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God." But they fell by the same desire which was the curse and ruin of Israel--the desire of imitating the practices and courting the friendship of the ungodly. "Thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown." Ezekiel 16:14, 15. {GC 382.3}
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62773
01/07/06 02:50 AM
01/07/06 02:50 AM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Out West
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
The question that remains is whether we have a gospel message fit to challenge Babylon's gospel with. Should we, do we, did we have a gospel message capable of being present truth sufficient ethically to challenge the big boys?
Colin,
The impression I got from your post is that you may have some reservations about how things have progressed since the early SDA movement formed. Is this the case? I am wondering about the word you used to describe the "gospel message" (ethically) that is supposed to challenge the others. What do you mean in using this term. Is there something unethical about our current way of presenting the gospel? It seems you are making the historic truth of the SDA Church inferior to those of fallen Protestantdom or Roman Catholic "Christianity." Also, I came away from reading your post wondering if it were possible for you to have any confidence in the current leadership at the GC. Is there some hesitancy on your end? Just wondering...
![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62774
01/07/06 02:57 AM
01/07/06 02:57 AM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Out West
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quote:
Originally posted by razorren:
[QB]
Shall antichrist be respected?
I would like to get some feedback on what she means in this question.. Clearly she had something on her mind with this. The question is, what was it?
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62775
01/07/06 07:17 AM
01/07/06 07:17 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Lord_Is_One:
quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
The question that remains is whether we have a gospel message fit to challenge Babylon's gospel with. Should we, do we, did we have a gospel message capable of being present truth sufficient ethically to challenge the big boys?
Colin,
The impression I got from your post is that you may have some reservations about how things have progressed since the early SDA movement formed. Is this the case? I am wondering about the word you used to describe the "gospel message" (ethically) that is supposed to challenge the others. What do you mean in using this term. Is there something unethical about our current way of presenting the gospel? It seems you are making the historic truth of the SDA Church inferior to those of fallen Protestantdom or Roman Catholic "Christianity." Also, I came away from reading your post wondering if it were possible for you to have any confidence in the current leadership at the GC. Is there some hesitancy on your end? Just wondering...
Thanks for your softly, softly query. We do have a current problem, though, do we not?
Our history on righteousness by faith teaching has had its highs, extreme highs, its lows, extreme lows, and now we're still at a low. What do you make of our 1888 RBF history in relation to our teaching today? The current GC need to ask and answer these self-same questions, since we in the membership who've done our homework recongise that our present teaching is no better than that of fallen Christiandom, but that we own the better version in our history and need only retrieve it to use it.
By "ethical" I mean that one can actually improve fallen Christianity's gospel and do so ethically: they've got at least the Bible's salvation message wrong, and the right version isn't popular; therefore, if we proclaim it again we'll need to be brave in the power of the 3 angels, and that 4th angel.
We've made a pig's ear of our prophetic purpose, and we must still succeed if we're to fulfil that purpose, so I'm wanting the GC to revive & reform our message. The support for that campaign is growing ever stronger, even supported by a few, here: you don't agree, or is your angle just slightly different?
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62776
01/07/06 12:12 PM
01/07/06 12:12 PM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Out West
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin:
Thanks for your softly, softly query. We do have a current problem, though, do we not?
Our history on righteousness by faith teaching has had its highs, extreme highs, its lows, extreme lows, and now we're still at a low. What do you make of our 1888 RBF history in relation to our teaching today? The current GC need to ask and answer these self-same questions, since we in the membership who've done our homework recongise that our present teaching is no better than that of fallen Christiandom, but that we own the better version in our history and need only retrieve it to use it.
By "ethical" I mean that one can actually improve fallen Christianity's gospel and do so ethically: they've got at least the Bible's salvation message wrong, and the right version isn't popular; therefore, if we proclaim it again we'll need to be brave in the power of the 3 angels, and that 4th angel.
We've made a pig's ear of our prophetic purpose, and we must still succeed if we're to fulfil that purpose, so I'm wanting the GC to revive & reform our message. The support for that campaign is growing ever stronger, even supported by a few, here: you don't agree, or is your angle just slightly different?
That's what I thought you meant. Thanks for clarifying. As to whether I am in agreement, I would only say, follow the flow of my posts and hopefully it will be evident without making the defensive in high places apt to harsh and unbending activity.
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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Re: Can SDA's still proclaim the 3rd Angel's message???
#62777
05/05/06 10:54 PM
05/05/06 10:54 PM
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Regular Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 61
Ga
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Do we argue about this or do we tell people? Have we been told to keep it down a little? Should we care what we are told by the conference? Should we obey God rather than man? The message will offend some people. If things are too cushy maybe we are not doing what we should. Why are we waiting? 8 people were saved in Noahs day. God can do a lot with a few who are willing.
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