We obviously needed the New Testament Scriptures, therefore, would you also ask whether the Old Testament Scriptures, which was all that existed back then, was also not good enough?

Truth is truth. The isn't truth that is greater than other truth. All truth comes from God. God has given us means to help us determine what is truth, including Scripture, but it doesn't make any sense to rank truth. What is greater than all others is God.

God is continually giving us truth. He didn't stop with the Old Testament, or the New, or with Ellen White.

As God is alive, so it truth. God is constantly seeking to give us truth, and only our unwillingness or incapacity to receive it prevents our receiving more of it than we receive.

The new testament is the eyewittnes records of the teachings of Jesus. God with man and some men listened and wrote down. Whom of you will be the first one to make direct quotes and eyewitness records of God walking with man equal to any other source?

Since some here obviously think scripture is a work in progress, I find the silence on the "clear word 'bible'" interesting. If truth is truth is truth and scripture is a collection of truth equal to any other source of truth, this shouldnt be such a hard issue to touch should it?

What does EGW herself say about her writings in relation to the Bible?

Doesn't what I already quoted answer this question, or did she say more that we should also quote here?

I also like what somebody else also posted here in which they said that the Bible is accepted by all Christians, whereas the inspired writings of EGW are only accepted within the SDA church, and even then, sad to say, there is division in the SDA church over the inspiration of her writings.

That was me.

The issue, it seems to me, is that God has truth which He wants to communicate to man, for the benefit of man. All truth comes from God. God communicates it us through different means. The Holy Spirit must be involved whatever the means, or we can't understand it.

The most precious truth I received from God was by way of God personally communicating to me. He told me all I needed was the cross. It was a very striking and moving experience, communicated at a time when I most needed it. It totally changed my life.

How will I communicate this truth? Do I speak of this experience I had? That probably wouldn't be too helpful for most (although it might be for some), because it is not an objective source. Anyone can have these experiences, and they are not necessarily from God. Drugs can induce them, Satan can do them, and so on. So I can tell you all day of my experience with God and what He said to me, and that is likely to have little effect on you. You are likely to treat it skeptically, as well you should, because who am I that you should consider me as a reliable medium to receive information from God?

Here comes the Scripture. Now I have a way to communicate with someone else. If I want to share the truth that all we need is the cross, I can find this truth in Scripture, share this truth, and there is an objective basis by which to communicate it.

This doesn't mean the truth found in Scripture is greater than the truth I received directly from God. It just means I have a means to communicate with another using a reference that the other accepts as a source of truth.

Similarly with Ellen White. The truth she communicated is just as true as the truth from the Bible. But to someone who doesn't accept her as a source of truth, one might be limited in communicating that truth. That really shouldn't be the case, because the Holy Spirit will enable anything to understand truth who is willing to, regardless of the source, but nevertheless many are unwilling to even consider something unless there is some source they consider authorative which says it.

So we must meet people where they are. Be all things to all people, as Paul says. If they prefer Scripture, use Scripture. If the prefer the Spirit of Prophecy, use that.

Here's something from E. J. Waggoner I like a lot which ties into this subject:


Note how this epistle (Galatians) emphasizes the fact that the Gospel is divine, not human. In the first verse the apostle states that he was not sent by man, nor to represent any man. Again he says that he is not anxious to please men, but only Christ; and now it is made very clear that the message he bore was wholly from heaven. By birth and education he was opposed to the Gospel, and when he was converted it was by a voice from heaven. Read the accounts of his conversion in Acts 9:1-22; 22:3-16; 26:9-20. The Lord Himself appeared to him in the way as he was breathing threatening and slaughter against the saints of God.

There are no two persons whose experience in conversion is the same, yet the general principles are the same in all. In effect, every person must be converted just as Paul was. The experience will seldom be so striking, but if it is genuine, it must be a revelation from heaven as surely as Paul's was. "All thy children shall be taught of the Lord." Is.54:13; John 6:45. "Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." "The anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him." 1John 2:27.

Do not make the mistake of supposing that this does away with the necessity for any human agency in the Gospel. If it did, then the apostles would have been self-condemned, because they were preachers of the Gospel. God has set apostles, prophets, teachers, etc., in the church (1Cor.12:28); but it is the Spirit of God that works in all these. "He whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God." John 3:34.

Therefore, no matter by whom anybody first hears the truth, he is to receive it as coming direct from heaven. The Holy Spirit enables those who wish to do God's will to tell what is truth as soon as they see or hear it, and they accept it, not on the authority of the man through whom it came to them, but on the authority of the God of truth. We may be as sure of the truth which we hold and teach as the apostle Paul was.

But whenever anybody cites the name of some highly-esteemed preacher or doctor of divinity, to justify his belief, or to give it more weight with some person whom he would convince, you may be sure that he himself does not know the truth of what he professes. It may be the truth, but he does not know for himself that it is true. It is everybody's privilege to know the truth (John 8:31,32); and when one holds a truth directly from God, ten thousand times ten thousand great names in its favor do not add a feather's weight to its authority; nor is his confidence in the least shaken if every great man on earth should oppose it. It is a grand thing to be built on the Rock.

TV: Whom of you will be the first one to make direct quotes and eyewitness records of God walking with man equal to any other source?

MM: I believe Paul was the first one to do it. He considered his epistles equal to Peter's and John's, etc. Luke was another one. Regrading truth being progressive and unmoveable listen what Sister Wite wrote about it:

CW 33
Maintaining Truth Not to Preclude New Light.-- It is a fact that we have the truth, and we must hold with tenacity to the positions that cannot be shaken; but we must not look with suspicion upon any new light which God may send, and say, Really, we cannot see that we need any more light than the old truth which we have hitherto received, and in which we are settled. {CW 33.1}

CW 35
Many Gems Yet to Be Discovered.--New light will ever be revealed on the word of God to him who is in living connection with the Sun of Righteousness. Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed. The diligent, prayerful seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the word of God. Many gems are yet scattered that are to be gathered together to become the property of the remnant people of God.--Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34. (1892.) {CW 35.1}

CW 52
Landmarks of Truth, Experience, and Duty.-- Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 59. (1904.) {CW 52.1}

LDE 178
It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction.--4T 211. {LDE 178.2}

Here is an extract of Sister White's compilation of her own writings regarding the inspiration and authority of her own writings (chapter 82 in 5T):

5T 564
As the end draws near and the work of giving the last warning to the world extends, it becomes more important for those who accept present truth to have a clear understanding of the nature and influence of the Testimonies, which God in His providence has linked with the work of the third angel's message from its very rise. In the following pages are given extracts from what I have written during the last forty years, relating to my own early experience in this special work, and also presenting what God has shown me concerning the nature and importance of the Testimonies, the manner in which they are given, and how they should be regarded. {5T 654.2}

5T 672-676
"It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies." "Satan knows how to make his attacks. He works upon minds to excite jealousy and dissatisfaction toward those at the head of the work. The gifts are next questioned; then, of course, they have but little weight, and instruction given through vision is disregarded." "Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction." [VOL. 4, P. 211; VOL. 1, P. 236]

"By giving place to doubts and unbelief in regard to the work of God, and by cherishing feelings of distrust and cruel jealousies, they are preparing themselves for complete deception. They rise up with bitter feelings against the ones who dare to speak of their errors and reprove their sins." [VOL. 3, P. 328.] {5T 672.1}

A testimony for certain young men, first published in 1880, speaks of this point as follows: "A prevailing skepticism is continually increasing in reference to the Testimonies of the Spirit of God; and these youth encourage questionings and doubts instead of removing them, because they are ignorant of the spirit and power and force of the Testimonies." [VOL. 4, P. 437.] {5T 672.2}

I was shown that many had so little spirituality that they did not understand the value of the Testimonies or their real object. They talked flippantly of the Testimonies given by God for the benefit of His people, and passed judgment upon them, giving their opinion and criticizing this and that, when they would better have placed their hands upon their lips, and prostrated themselves in the dust; for they could not appreciate the spirit of the Testimonies, because they knew so little of the Spirit of God. [VOL. 4, P. 443.] {5T 672.3}

"There are some in ----- who have never fully submitted to reproof. They have taken a course of their own choosing. They have ever, to a greater or less degree, exerted an influence against those who have stood up to defend the right and reprove the wrong. The influence of these persons upon individuals who come here and who are brought in contact with them . . . is very bad. They fill the minds of these newcomers with questionings and doubts in regard to the Testimonies of the Spirit of God. They put false constructions upon the Testimonies; and instead of leading persons to become consecrated to God and to listen to the voice of the church, they teach them to be independent and not to mind the opinions and judgment of others. The influence of this class has been secretly at work. Some are unconscious of the harm they are doing; but, unconsecrated, proud, and rebellious themselves, they lead others in the wrong track. A poisonous atmosphere is inhaled from these unconsecrated ones. The blood of souls is in the garments of such, and Christ will say to them in the day of final settlement: 'Depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity.' Astonished they will be, but their professedly Christian lives were a deception, a fraud." [VOL. 4, PP. 513, 514 (1880).] {5T 673.1}

"Some express their views that the testimony of Sister White cannot be reliable. This is all that many unconsecrated ones want. The testimonies of reproof have checked their vanity and pride; but if they dared, they would go to almost any length in fashion and pride. God will give all such an opportunity to prove themselves and to develop their true characters." [VOL. 3, P. 313 (1873).] {5T 673.2}

"I saw that the reason why visions had not been more frequent of late is, they have not been appreciated by the church. The church have nearly lost their spirituality and faith, and the reproofs and warnings have had but little effect upon them. Many of those who have professed faith in them have not heeded them." [VOL. 1, P. 119 (1855).] {5T 674.1}

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth. I have been fearful that many would take a questioning, doubting position, and in my distress for your souls I would warn you. How many will heed the warning? As you now hold the Testimonies, should one be given crossing your track, correcting your errors, would you feel at perfect liberty to accept or reject any part or the whole? That which you will be least inclined to receive is the very part most needed." [VOL. 5, P. 98 (1882).] {5T 674.2}

"My brethren, beware of the evil heart of unbelief. The word of God is plain and close in its restrictions; it interferes with your selfish indulgence; therefore you do not obey it. The Testimonies of His Spirit call your attention to the Scriptures, point out your defects of character, and rebuke your sins; therefore you do not heed them. And to justify your carnal, ease-loving course you begin to doubt whether the Testimonies are from God. If you would obey their teachings you would be assured of their divine origin. Remember, your unbelief does not affect their truthfulness. If they are from God they will stand." [VOL. 5, P. 234.] {5T 674.3}

"I have been shown that unbelief in the testimonies of warning, encouragement, and reproof is shutting away the light from God's people. Unbelief is closing their eyes so that they are ignorant of their true condition." "They think the testimony of the Spirit of God in reproof is uncalled for or that it does not mean them. Such are in the greatest need of the grace of God and spiritual discernment, that they may discover their deficiency in spiritual knowledge." [VOL. 3, PP. 255, 253, 254 (1873).] {5T 674.4}

"Many who have backslidden from the truth assign as a reason for their course that they do not have faith in the Testimonies. . . . The question now is: Will they yield their idol which God condemns, or will they continue in their wrong course of indulgence and reject the light God has given them reproving the very things in which they delight? The question to be settled with them is: Shall I deny myself and receive as of God the Testimonies which reprove my sins, or shall I reject the Testimonies because they reprove my sins? {5T 675.1}

"In many cases the Testimonies are fully received, the sin and indulgence broken off, and reformation at once commences in harmony with the light God has given. In other instances sinful indulgences are cherished, the Testimonies are rejected, and many excuses which are untrue are offered to others as the reason for refusing to receive them. The true reason is not given. It is a lack of moral courage--a will, strengthened and controlled by the Spirit of God, to renounce hurtful habits." [VOL. 4, P. 32 (1876).] {5T 675.2}

"Satan has ability to suggest doubts and to devise objections to the pointed testimony that God sends, and many think it a virtue, a mark of intelligence in them, to be unbelieving and to question and quibble. Those who desire to doubt will have plenty of room. God does not propose to remove all occasion for unbelief. He gives evidence, which must be carefully investigated with a humble mind and a teachable spirit, and all should decide from the weight of evidence." [VOL. 3, P. 255 (1873).]

"God gives sufficient evidence for the candid mind to believe; but he who turns from the weight of evidence because there are a few things which he cannot make plain to his finite understanding will be left in the cold, chilling atmosphere of unbelief and questioning doubts, and will make shipwreck of faith." [VOL. 4, PP. 232, 233 (1876).] {5T 675.3}