Quote.
Remember, both Adam and Eve were surprised that they did not immediately die the instant they sinned.
Unquote.

Were they?

If they knew they would die when they eat the fruit, they won’t eat it, right? But they didn’t know it before they ate it. And they keep eating it because they doubt what God had said to them that they would die, their disbelief were due to Satan’s lie. And after they ate it and found they didn’t die, I think they were not surprise, because they have doubt already before they ate it. So, the fact that they didn’t die doesn’t surprise them, on the contrary, their disbelief was answered and proved.

In His love

James S

TE: MM, you just keep saying the same thing over and over without presenting any reason for what you're saying.

MM: I'll repost the quote that describes what Eve felt when she did not die the instant she ate the forbidden fruit:

PP 55-57
The serpent plucked the fruit of the forbidden tree and placed it in the hands of the half-reluctant Eve. Then he reminded her of her own words, that God had forbidden them to touch it, lest they die. She would receive no more harm from eating the fruit, he declared, than from touching it. Perceiving no evil results from what she had done, Eve grew bolder… {PP 55.3}

An expression of sadness came over the face of Adam. He appeared astonished and alarmed. To the words of Eve he replied that this must be the foe against whom they had been warned; and by the divine sentence she must die. In answer she urged him to eat, repeating the words of the serpent, that they should not surely die. She reasoned that this must be true, for she felt no evidence of God's displeasure, but on the contrary realized a delicious, exhilarating influence, thrilling every faculty with new life, such, she imagined, as inspired the heavenly messengers. {PP 56.1}

… He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her. After all, he reasoned, might not the words of the wise serpent be true? Eve was before him, as beautiful and apparently as innocent as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater love for him than before. No sign of death appeared in her, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit and quickly ate. {PP 56.2}

MM: Not only was Eve half-reluctant to eat the fruit and delighted when she did not die when she ate it, but Adam also decided to eat and die with her - all the while hoping he wouldn't die. Was his choice suicidal?

Everything you're presenting here seems to be very clearly refuting your idea that Eve expected to die when she ate of the fruit. "Perceiving no evil results from what she had done, she grew bolder."

Clearly she believed the lies of the serpent, that she wouldn't die.

James explained it very clearly.

Adam's situation was different than Eve's. Let's deal with Eve's first, and then we can treat Adam's if you wish. I was not disputing something you had said about Adam, but something you had said about Eve.

Is there some reason this is important to you? That is, I'm curious as to why you are asserting that Eve was surprised she didn't die. Why do you think she ate of the apple, if she expected to die by so doing?

Pardon my butting in, but here I am .

Jesus said, "If I be lifted up, I will draw all unto Me." The SOP puts it like this (paraphrase) "The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God, drawing all men to Christ. If the sinner does not resist, He will be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for His sins." (goes on to say will be converted, brought into harmony with God, have the law written in the heart and mind, and so forth).

So it's default in the sense that God has graciously provided for all to be saved, and God will save everyone, unless the "prospect" resists. As Waggoner puts it:

God has wrought out salvation for every man, and has given it to him; but the majority spurn it, and throw it away. The Judgment will reveal the fact that full and complete salvation was given to every man, and that the lost have deliberately thrown away their birthright possession. Thus every mouth will be stopped. (The Glad Tidings)

My 2 cents. I'll see what Scott says.

Bro Tom,

You can [********] in any time. (The censor software's on the ball today.)

Before I respond, I think your reply to me on the "We Have All Been Saved" thread touches upon the same concepts. Do you want to discuss it here or there?

It doesn't matter to me.

The reason I keep pointing out that Eve was surprised that she did not die immediately when she 1) touched the fruit, and 2) after she ate it - is to make it clear that she understood the consequences of sinning was instant death, not a gradual first death.

Saved by default? Punishment and destruction are the only things that happen by default as a result of sinning. The law obligates God to punish and destroy sinners the instant they sin. But Jesus volunteered to pay our sin debt, to suffer and die in our place, to satisfy the just and loving demands of the law, to appease the wrath of God. In so doing Jesus made salvation available to all who accept Him as their personal Saviour, to all who crucify self, to all who walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man, to all who cease sinning, to all who reproduce the character of Jesus.

The following quote says: a candidate for heaven must obey the law.

NL 26
In order to be candidates for heaven we must meet the requirement of the law: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself" (Luke 10:27). {NL 26.2}

The following quote says: the blood of Jesus is what makes it possible for God to justify pardoning repentant sinners - instead of immediately punishing and destroying them.

NL 27
By reason of the sacrifice made by Christ for fallen men, God can justly pardon the transgressor who accepts the merits of Christ. {NL 27.1}

The following quote says: we must first crucify our old man habits of sin before we can enter into fellowship with Jesus – not gradually afterwards.

NL 46
Pride, selfishness, vanity, worldliness--sin in all its forms--must be overcome if we would enter into a union with Christ. The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is that they try to attach themselves to Christ without first detaching themselves from these cherished idols. {NL 46.1}