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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - Daniel 2
#76988
07/14/06 05:16 AM
07/14/06 05:16 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 635
New York
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Quote:
From Wednesday's study:
Quote:
If we were to chart the kingdoms depicted, and specifically named, in Daniel, the outline would look like this:
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Babylon (Dan. 2:37, 38)
Media-Persia (Dan. 8:20)
Greece (Dan. 8:21)
Fourth kingdom
God's eternal kingdom (Dan. 2:44)
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Read Daniel's own interpretation of the vision (Dan. 2:37-45). Do you see anything there indicating that these prophecies can have different meanings in different times? Defend your answer.
Does anybody reading this see anything there indicating that these prophecies can have different meanings in different times? As it says, prepare to defend your answer.
It is interesting how the lesson argues that this is the only interpetation, but the teachers quartery suggests that there was a local application as well, and even this question allows for the discussion. Sadly we are so focused on how the prophecy WAS fulfilled that we do not see how it COULD HAVE BEEN FULFILLED had God's people been faithful.
Once again I appeal to study the chapters "Destroyed for Lack of Knowlege" in Prophets and Kings and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophey" in the commentary. We are NOT putting in the potential for these two excellent wirtings to work and thus floundering on many other parts of the Bible (although I believe we are correct in Daniel 2).
The actual word in Daniel is always in the ancient world translated as individual kings, it is only in Daniel 2 where translaters give it a feeling of kingdoms and Bible dictionaries read back into the word the possibility of Kingdoms due to circular reasoning on how Daniel 2 must mean kingdoms, therefore this word that means only individual kings in all it's other use inside and outside of scripture must also include the possibility of kingdoms.
A principle that I was taught in college Bible classes that I have always found useful is that every text has a local application, but can be re-applied through historical analogy. From seeing what could have happened, we can get a much clearer understanding of what will happen and recognize (like we do in Daniel 2) how it actually becomes fulfilled.
The Old Testament up to Daniel 9 (with transition chapters of Daniel 7 and 8) sees the exile as THE LAST DAYS!!! (See Deuteronomy 4). The consept of the exile brought to the old testament mind the same picture as the Sunday Law brings to the typical Adventist mind.
Daniel 2 talks about 4 KINGS Where Nebuchadnezzar is THE FIRST KING; THE HEAD OF GOLD. and the book of Daniel talks about 4 and exactly 4 kings: Nebchadnezzar, Belshasher (sorry about the spelling) Darius, Cyrus.
Daniel 2 tells what was suposed to happen over the exile. Daniel 7 begins to expand from individula kings to kingdoms, which opens the door to the possibility that the exile might not be the last days but Daniel 7 can be interpeted in a way where it probaby could be. Daniel 8 again is re-applying Daniel 2 from kings to kingdoms, with Greece playing a larger role. Daniel 8 was given about 2300 litteral days from the end of Babylon, but did not say 2300 days, but 2300 evenings-morning, or 2300 cycles, which Daniel would have understood as days, months, half years or whole years (and Exekiel would have added 2300 sabbatical year cycles; but Daniel was based more on Deuteronomy and thus would have stoped with years)thus giving this man who was liking like the typical adventist after the Sunday Law to wonder what was going on, was the world about to end or not...
Daniel 9-12 reapplys the 2300 cycles to the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem and tells that the exile will not be the last days, so now what is Israel suposed to do.
Now getting back to the historical ananlogy and although it could have been fulfilled back in Daniel's day, looking at how it came around and was fulfilled:
Have to go now, I'll come back to look at the 7 parts of Daniel 2
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Re: Lesson Study #3 - Daniel 2
#76992
07/23/06 04:54 AM
07/23/06 04:54 AM
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SDA
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I've been working on two posts for more information (one short and one more detail) but as we are getting farther from the lesson on Daniel 2 I fear people being no longer interested to return to this thread.
To answer the question about conditionality in this prophecy, we need to remember who Daniel is. He is a royal figure, who's ansestery was David and had promises that sounded unconditional, but his trip to Babylon taught him that there were conditions implied. Also he was a student of the great Deuteronomist Theologian, Jeremiah. Deuteronomy is full of conditions and Daniel is based on Deuteronomy, therefore the conditions are implied. The idea of conditions are so central to the Deuteronomic school, Daniel may as well attend a church that reads on the front "The Conditional-Adventist church" and to question the conditionality of the prophecy would be like questioning the importance of Sabbath to Seventh-day Adventists because the heard a sermon by HMS Richards that was on a different topic and did not mention the Sabbath on his broadcast that week.
Deuteronomy predicts that the exile was to be THE LAST DAYS!!! The exile to Daniel brought about the same mental picture that the idea of the Sunday Law brings to us. Therefore I have to dissagree with Mountain Man, I also can not unify his comments with Matthew 24:14, as well as the chapters "Destroyed for lack of knowlege" from Prophets and Kings and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" from the commentary.
Let's not forget Jesus in Matthew 24 gave all sorts of events, but says that THE SIGN of the second coming is "When the gospel is spread to all the world, then shall the end come." The exile could have been the last days. The second coming could have occured in 70 AD. The message of Revelation is that the church lost it's first love and that it needed to "Preach again!" the theam of Revelation is "Preach again!" and if you study the life of the Roman Emperor Domination, who exiled John to Patmos, you would be amazed how much he sounded like the little horn of Daniel 7. The pope is not the only one this fits. We find in these prophecys a oneness of opposits: On the one hand God is in complete control, and can in such uncany detail let us know what we are going to see in history, yet it is events that would happen no matter if history ends up being long or short. Thus God give us freedom of choice to hasten his coming.
In the Old Testament the exile was suposed to end by a second great exodus lead by the messiah. Jesus could have been born and durring the 70 years of exile... however we see that he was born when the world was in a perfect condition for his birth, dispite Israel being offered to have Jesus be born durring the exile, he ended up coming in the fullness of time. So with the prophecys of the second coming, God knows when the perfect time will be, but gives each generation the chance to either be the last generation, or to prepare for their children or at most their grandchildren to be the last generation.
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