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Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Will] #86596
03/18/07 06:04 PM
03/18/07 06:04 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Crater,
That would be me. I had a strange feeling that's exactly where she was going (which I was right), and it is not the norm for MSDAOL,nor is it a bad thing either.
A study welcomes questions, ever have a Bible study with someone and they ask you questions throughout or is it a monologue?
God Bless,
Will

Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Will] #86597
03/18/07 06:07 PM
03/18/07 06:07 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Cheri,
I can't believe or accept your position that Daniel ate no flesh meat or drank wine.
He was brought up knowing temperance, meaning "don't be a glutton". Temperance means :
 Quote:

1 : moderation in action, thought, or feeling : RESTRAINT
2 a : habitual moderation in the indulgence of the appetites or passions b : moderation in or abstinence from the use of alcoholic beverages


Temperance does not mean vegetarianism, and that's Ok. I expected you to go through such a route to try and say what the Bible clearly does not say, and that's fine. You are entitled to believe what you choose to. Its part of our freedom (while we still have it).
God Bless,
Will

Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Will] #86600
03/18/07 06:44 PM
03/18/07 06:44 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
There seems to be disagreement on whether or not Daniel drank wine and ate flesh food, therefore, I am doing a EGW quotes search using the search words Daniel wine.

This is the first one I came to:


 Quote:

When these youth were selected to be educated in the "learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans," that they might "stand in the king's palace," there was appointed them a daily allowance from the king's table, both of food and wine. "But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank." [SEE DANIEL 1.] {CTBH 26.1}

The food appointed them would include meats pronounced unclean by the law of Moses. They requested the officer who had them in charge to give them a more simple fare; but he hesitated, fearing that such rigid abstinence as they proposed would affect their personal appearance unfavorably, and bring himself into disfavor with the king. Daniel pleaded for a ten days' trial. This was granted; and at the expiration of that time these youth were found to be far more healthy in appearance than were those who had partaken of the king's dainties. Hence the simple "pulse and water" which they at first requested, was thereafter the food of Daniel and his companions. {CTBH 26.2}

Does the last sentence mean that this was their diet from this time onward?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Daryl] #86601
03/18/07 06:53 PM
03/18/07 06:53 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
In seeking to answer my own question, I came across the following quote:

 Quote:

At the end of the ten days the result was found to be quite the opposite of Melzar's expectations. Not only in personal appearance, but in physical activity and mental vigor, those who had been temperate in their habits exhibited a marked superiority over their companions who had indulged appetite. As a result of this trial, Daniel and his associates were permitted to continue their simple diet during the whole course of their training for the duties of the kingdom. {CD 31.3}

The coloured portion would imply a definite period of time in which they abstained from wine and flesh food.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Daryl] #86602
03/18/07 06:58 PM
03/18/07 06:58 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
In my words search I came across this interesting quote:

 Quote:

The life of Daniel is an inspired illustration of what constitutes a sanctified character. Bible sanctification has to do with the whole man.... It is impossible for any to enjoy the blessing of sanctification while they are selfish and gluttonous. These groan under a burden of infirmities because of wrong habits of eating and drinking, which do violence to the laws of life and health. Many are enfeebling their digestive organs by indulging perverted appetite. The power of the human constitution to resist the abuses put upon it is wonderful; but persistent wrong habits in excessive eating and drinking will enfeeble every function of the body. Let these feeble ones consider what they might have been had they lived temperately and promoted health instead of abusing it. In the gratification of perverted appetite and passion, even professed Christians cripple nature in her work and lessen physical, mental, and moral power. Some who are doing this, claim to be sanctified to God; but such a claim is without foundation.... {CH 66.2}

How does this quote fit into this overall study?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Daryl] #86604
03/18/07 07:26 PM
03/18/07 07:26 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
I also came across the following EGW quote relevant to this study:

 Quote:

We should consider the words of the apostle Paul, in which he appeals to his brethren, by the mercies of God, to present their bodies "a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God." ... Sanctification is not merely a theory, an emotion, or a form of words, but a living, active principle, entering into the everyday life. It requires that our habits of eating, drinking, and dressing be such as to secure the preservation of physical, mental, and moral health, that we may present to the Lord our bodies--not an offering corrupted by wrong habits but--"a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God." Romans 12:1. {CH 67.1}

Let none who profess godliness regard with indifference the health of the body, and flatter themselves that intemperance is no sin and will not affect their spirituality. A close sympathy exists between the physical and the moral nature. The standard of virtue is elevated or degraded by the physical habits. Excessive eating of the best of food will produce a morbid condition of the moral feelings. And if the food is not the most healthful, the effects will be still more injurious. Any habit which does not promote healthful action in the human system degrades the higher and nobler faculties. Wrong habits of eating and drinking lead to errors in thought and action. Indulgence of appetite strengthens the animal propensities, giving them the ascendancy over the mental and spiritual powers. {CH 67.2}

"Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul" (1 Peter 2:11), is the language of the apostle Peter. Many regard this warning as applicable only to the licentious; but it has a broader meaning. It guards against every injurious gratification of appetite or passion. It is a most forcible warning against the use of such stimulants and narcotics as tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and morphine. These indulgences may well be classed among the lusts that exert a pernicious influence upon moral character. The earlier these hurtful habits are formed, the more firmly will they hold their victims in slavery to lust, and the more certainly will they lower the standard of spirituality. {CH 67.3}

Bible teaching will make but a feeble impression upon those whose faculties are benumbed by indulgence of appetite. Thousands will sacrifice not only health and life, but their hope of heaven, before they will wage war against their own perverted appetites. One lady, who for many years claimed to be sanctified, made the statement that if she must give up her pipe or heaven she would say, "Farewell, heaven; I cannot overcome my love for my pipe." This idol had been enshrined in the soul, leaving to Jesus a subordinate place. Yet this woman claimed to be wholly the Lord's! {CH 68.1}

The above EGW quote states that intemperance is a sin.

Can anybody explain in what way intemperance is a sin?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Daryl] #86607
03/18/07 08:13 PM
03/18/07 08:13 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
When you point out that intemperance is a sin in a thread about vegetarian food, one would be tempted to think that you view being a vegetarian as being temperate. Is this true?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: vastergotland] #86608
03/18/07 08:33 PM
03/18/07 08:33 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Not really, as you can be an intemperate vegetarian.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Daryl] #86613
03/18/07 09:53 PM
03/18/07 09:53 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
So the relevance of that quote to this topic is?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: A Bible Study on Vegetarianism [Re: Daryl] #86614
03/18/07 10:32 PM
03/18/07 10:32 PM
Cheri Fritz  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 278
Gloversville, NY, USA
Greetings Will,

This evening you provided us with a definition of the word temperance.
 Quote:
1 : moderation in action, thought, or feeling : RESTRAINT
2 a : habitual moderation in the indulgence of the appetites or passions b : moderation in or abstinence from the use of alcoholic beverages
So let us enter into the Holy Scriptures to look up the word temperance.
  • For your reference: Acts 24:25; Galatians 5:23; 2 Peter 1:6.
The Strong's number for temperance is: 1466
  1. The definition is:
    • 1) self-control (the virtue of one who masters his desires and passions, esp. his sensual appetites)
True temperance teaches us to dispense entirely with everything that is harmful and not good for our body temples. So let us also to look to the writings of Mrs. White too.
 Quote:
"Abstemiousness in diet and control of the passions, will preserve the intellect and give mental and moral vigor, enabling men to bring all their propensities under the control of the higher powers, and to discern between right and wrong, the sacred and the common."—Ellen G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 491
 Quote:
In referring to these races as a figure of the Christian warfare, Paul emphasized the preparation necessary to the success of the contestants in the race--the preliminary discipline, the abstemious diet, the necessity for temperance. "Every man that striveth for the mastery," he declared, "is temperate in all things." The runners put aside every indulgence that would tend to weaken the physical powers, and by severe and continuous discipline trained their muscles to strength and endurance, that when the day of the contest should arrive, they might put the heaviest tax upon their powers. How much more important that the Christian, whose eternal interests are at stake, bring appetite and passion under subjection to reason and the will of God! Never must he allow his attention to be diverted by amusements, luxuries, or ease. All his habits and passions must be brought under the strictest discipline. Reason, enlightened by the teachings of God's word and guided by His Spirit, must hold the reins of control.The Acts of the Apostles, 311:1.
Tammy Rosche's Quote:
 Quote:

Page 546

Strict compliance with the requirements of Heaven brings temporal as well as spiritual blessings. Unwavering in his allegiance to God, unyielding in his mastery of self, Daniel, by his noble dignity and unswerving integrity, while yet a young man, won the "favor and tender love" of the heathen officer in whose charge he had been placed. Daniel 1:9. The same characteristics marked his afterlife. He rose speedily to the position of prime minister of the kingdom of Babylon. Through the reign of successive monarchs, the downfall of the nation, and the establishment of another world empire, such were his wisdom and statesmanship, so perfect his tact, his courtesy, his genuine goodness of heart, his fidelity to principle, that even his enemies were forced to the confession that "they could find none occasion nor fault; forasmuch as he was faithful."

Will I do not recall that I said vegetarianism means temperance. But I do believe vegetarianism is included into the act temperance, especially for our last days.

And I am completely preplexed at your statement "I expected you to go through such a route to try and say what the Bible clearly does not say..." All I can say is that I have studied and prayed and asked God for His education. And that I am really sorry to have caused you such thoughts for it was never my intent.

Your Sister in Christ,
Cheri


"Why is it so hard to lead a self-denying, humble life? Because professed Christians are not dead to the world. It is easy living after we are dead." 1T 131.2
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