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Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90360
07/04/07 12:37 PM
07/04/07 12:37 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Of course I disagree, Darius. Moses says specifically that God wrote on the tablets and gave the tablets to him.

"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me." (Deut. 5:22)

"At that time the LORD said to me, ‘Hew for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to Me on the mountain and make yourself an ark of wood. And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.’ So I made an ark of acacia wood, hewed two tablets of stone like the first, and went up the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand. And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the LORD had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me” (Deut. 10:1-4).

Interesting. According to you, claiming that the commandments of Ex. 34:11-26 are not the ten commandments (I don't even consider that they are 10 and their relevance can never be compaired to that of the real 10 commandments) is to make a mockery of Biblical interpretation, but you can claim that Moses wrote on the tablets when the Bible says clearly that God wrote on the tablets, and you consider that this is not to make mockery of Biblical interpretation. Saying that the finger of God is the finger of Moses is not making mockery of Biblical interpretation.

Besides, God says, "And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets". How can you claim that there are two sets of the ten commandments when God says specifically that there is just one, for the same words were writen both on the first and on the second tablets?

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90361
07/04/07 01:07 PM
07/04/07 01:07 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Rosangela, now I understand why you were so intent on that question. That is a rather convincing analysis but it leads to the same place. We are still left with two different documents to explain.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90362
07/04/07 01:14 PM
07/04/07 01:14 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Like I said, Darius. God says, "And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets." The words that were written on the first tablets are the same that were written on the second tablets. So there can't be two sets of commandments, but just one.

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90364
07/04/07 01:28 PM
07/04/07 01:28 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
The problem is He never said that he wrote what is in Ex. 20. Then the Deut. 5 version is different in the fourth commandment. The only version that is associated with a statement of writing is Ex. 34.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90378
07/05/07 10:08 AM
07/05/07 10:08 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
In Deut. 5, after listing the 10 commandments, Moses says,

"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me" (v.22).

Here it is mentioned which words were written on the tablets of stone.

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90381
07/05/07 12:05 PM
07/05/07 12:05 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
OK. Let us assume that the words he spoke to the assembly are the ones he wrote on the tablets of stone. Do you have a reference that points to those words? What is the relevance of the words in Ex. 34?


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90385
07/05/07 01:36 PM
07/05/07 01:36 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
OK. Let us assume that the words he spoke to the assembly are the ones he wrote on the tablets of stone. Do you have a reference that points to those words?

The words Moses mentions in Deut. 5:22 that God spoke to the assembly and wrote on the tablets are those contained in Deut. 5:6-21.

 Quote:
What is the relevance of the words in Ex. 34?


We have this sequence in the first time God makes a covenant with the people:
- First God speaks to the assembly (Ex. 20:1-20);
- then Moses goes up to the mountain and receives additional laws (Ex. 20:21-23:33);
- he tells these laws to the people, and the people agrees to enter into a covenant with God (Ex. 24:3);
- he then writes these laws (Ex. 24:4) in the Book of Covenant, which he reads to the people (Ex. 24:7), confirming the covenant.
- Then Moses goes up with Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel (Ex. 24:9);
- after that, the Lord said to Moses, "Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them" (Ex. 24:12).
- Then Moses goes up to the mountain again, where he stays 40 days and 40 nights (Ex. 24:18), where God gives him instructions about the sanctuary (Ex. 25:1-31:17) and finally gives him the tablets of stone written with the finger of God (Ex. 31:18).

Ex. 34 gives the account of the renewal of the covenant with the people, so it mentions that God gave Moses new tablets of stone and, in view of the golden-calf episode, reinforces some of the laws that Moses should write again on the Book of Covenant.

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90393
07/06/07 03:40 AM
07/06/07 03:40 AM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Self-deception is the most difficult to counter.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Darius] #90395
07/06/07 10:19 AM
07/06/07 10:19 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Especially when someone believes that the Bible contradicts itself.

Re: Is God The Real Author Of The Bible (The Scriptures)? [Re: Rosangela] #90407
07/06/07 05:15 PM
07/06/07 05:15 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Rosangela, you speak of the Bible in anthropomorphic terms. The Bible is a collection of books by individuals and some of the information is contradictory. This is not speculation. It is fact. All Christians agree with that. Most times you hear it when they say, "Well, it does not really mean that." That happens when they come upon a contradiction.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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