Regarding your first question, I think you're statement begs such a question:



Like I said, I practically fell out of my chair when I read this. It's hard for me to believe anyone would actually write such a thing. Regarding your second question, I think you already exhibited a lack of wisdom in writing what you wrote. Given that you did, answering the question would be reasonable. However, I agree that dodging it, as you have chosen to do, is a wiser choice. Admitting you made a mistake in writing what you wrote would be a wise choice as well.

"It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wandering and doubting." Not a wise sentiment. It is far better to know our need of Christ than to go around wandering and doubting. That's a better sentiment.



It can mean we might sin occasionally. He says if we sin, we have an advocate. He doesn't say a Christian will never sin. He certainly doesn't say we should know that we are perfect.

Is not the boldened part the true question. Is it a preconcieved idea on your part or is it an integral part of the message. That is the question.

TE: "It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wandering and doubting." Not a wise sentiment. It is far better to know our need of Christ than to go around wandering and doubting. That's a better sentiment.

MM: Which is easier to say, Thy sins are forgiven or Rise up and walk? As I see it there is an inseparable symbiotic relationship between knowing we are perfect in Christ and knowing we are perfect because the Bible says so. It is the blessed assurance. The bottom line is – In Christ our heavenly Father sees us as if we have never sinned. Faith is the victory; doubt is our undoing.

Do you believe it, Tom? Or, do you doubt it? Does our heavenly Father see us in Christ as if we have never sinned? And, if we have never sinned, are we perfect? What thinkest thou?

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MM: The promises speak for themselves, don't they? Of himself, Paul, perhaps under inspiration, wrote:

2 Timothy
4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith:
4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Did Paul believe that in Christ he was perfect?

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TE: It can mean we might sin occasionally. He says if we sin, we have an advocate. He doesn't say a Christian will never sin. He certainly doesn't say we should know that we are perfect.

MM: Yes, his use of the word “if” does mean it might happen. But it also means it doesn’t have to happen. Sinning isn’t inevitable or automatic. In fact, in Christ, it will not and cannot happen. That is precisely what Jesus promises. And, in Christ, we know we are perfect, we know our heavenly Father sees us as if we have never sinned. How much more perfect can it get?

Again, please do not assume I am also saying there is no room to grow in grace, no room to mature in the fruits of the Spirit. In the same way Jesus grew and matured from childhood to adulthood, so too, we will grow and mature, starting here and continuing throughout eternity.

Such progression, however, does not include gradually outgrowing our cultivated habits of sinning. Instead, it means maturing more and more in exactly the same way Jesus did. As such, it doesn't involve sinning less; it means maturing more in righteousness and true holiness, "perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor 7:1)

It cannot mean we will sin occasionally.

TV: Is not the boldened part the true question. Is it a preconcieved idea on your part or is it an integral part of the message. That is the question.

MM: Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say - You will sin occasionally. He simply says, I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Born again believers, who are abiding in Jesus, are dead to sin and awake to righteousness. They are growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. They stand before God without blame or blemish. They "stand in awe, and sin not."

But when they are not abiding in Jesus they are sinning. All we can do apart from Jesus is sin. There is no neutrality. We are either all of His and free from sin or none of His and full of sin. We cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus, while walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man.

To commit a known sin, born again believers must cease abiding in Jesus, at which point they resurrect the crucified and buried mind of the old man and resume sinning. To cease sinning, they must receive the gift of repentance and confess and forsake their sin.

Then Jesus pardons and restores them to the mind of the new mind and they resume where they left off - imitating the lovely example of Jesus, growing in grace, maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. The old man dies and is buried again.

Paul believed he finnished his race. Does this mean Paul believed he was perfect? If yes, what would Paul have thought it meant to be perfect? Is Pauls meaning of perfection the same as ours?Is our focus really to be on sin or even the lack of it?

Whoa! Hold on a moment! You did not write anything about being perfect in Christ. You wrote:



This is a completely different statement. To leave out "in Christ" is a horrendous oversight, if that's what you really meant.



Well, you're do a bait and switch here. You're not saying the same thing as before. My question related to what you wrote before. Every believer is perfect in Christ, but that's a far, far cry from saying "It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wandering and doubting."

TV: Paul believed he finnished his race. Does this mean Paul believed he was perfect? If yes, what would Paul have thought it meant to be perfect? Is Pauls meaning of perfection the same as ours?

MM: Paul believed being perfect meant being like Jesus more and more unto the perfect day. “I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.” (Philippians 3:14, 15)

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TV: Is our focus really to be on sin or even the lack of it?

MM: No. But when we are being sorely tempted to be unlike Jesus it is necessary to fight the good fight of faith, to refuse to sin, to keep our eyes of faith on Jesus so we come off more than conquerors.

Naturally, we do not resist sinning by focusing on not sinning; instead, we fellowship with Jesus in spirit and truth, focusing on His lovely traits of character until the temptation fades away into nothingness.

Isn’t that the way its done?

Maybe meditating on some insight about God or praying for somebody else is a better cure to sin than is hitting ourselves on the head with the ten words?

Tom, I am sorry for the confusion. It never pays to leave out the most important words - in Christ. Thank you for pointing it out.

What do you think "in Christ, we are perfect" means? Do you have in mind justification or sanctification or both? In other words, in Christ are we perfect in reality; or, are we only perfect on paper? That is, in Christ are we perfect in the intrinsic sense or only in the forensic sense or both?

TV: Maybe meditating on some insight about God or praying for somebody else is a better cure to sin than is hitting ourselves on the head with the ten words?

MM: Is the contrast necessary? Is it possible to be aware of the binding claims of the law and keep our eyes of faith on Jesus and come off more than conquerors?