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Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97877
04/07/08 02:58 PM
04/07/08 02:58 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, the following insights lead me to believe it is important for people to understand the truth about Sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep:

LDE 157
The saints must get a thorough understanding of present truth, which they will be obliged to maintain from the Scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead, for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them, professing to be beloved friends and relatives, who will declare to them that the Sabbath has been changed, also other unscriptural doctrines.--EW 87 (1854). {LDE 156.3}

The apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth. They deny the divine origin of the Bible.--GC 557 (1911). {LDE 157.1}

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome.--GC 588 (1911). {LDE 157.2}

Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing, and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. . . . {LDE 157.3}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out.--GC 624, 625 (1911). {LDE 157.4}
I have two comments to the above. One is, knowing the true voice of the sheepherd is a better defence against imposters than any amount of secondary knowledge. Two is something Ellen wrote:

Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach. {8T 287.2}


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97896
04/07/08 10:37 PM
04/07/08 10:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, it sounds like you're not concerned about whether or not people accept the truth regarding imitating Jesus' example in keeping the Sabbath and believing in soul-sleep.

If it doesn't matter if people break the Sabbath or don't believe in soul-sleep, like Jesus did, what is Jesus waiting for? Why hasn't He returned yet? To break one commandment is to break them all, so why wait? So long as everyone chooses for or against believing Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, it shouldn't matter if they keep or break this or that commandment, right? If not sinning is not important, why wait?
As I cannot make anyone accpet or reject sabbath or soul-sleep, being over the edge concerned with it seems like a waste of time to me. Bring the person to Jesus and He will teach them all that they need to know. I have not been called to gather diciples of my own, merely to introduce others to the Lord. He will call them as His own diciples in due time. The Lord is Jesus and not any right belief about any subject, including sabbath or souls. So why does Jesus wait? Peter was of the opinion that Jesus waits until such a time when no more people will choose Life. Obviously there are still people who are willing to choose God if they are introduced to Him.

Does the Gospel Commission apply to you personally? "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

Matthew
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97897
04/07/08 10:42 PM
04/07/08 10:42 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TV: One is, knowing the true voice of the sheepherd is a better defence against imposters than any amount of secondary knowledge.

MM: How do you discern between voices? If a voice or spirit tells you to keep the Sunday instead of the Sabbath day, how do you know if it is telling you the truth? If a voice or spirit tells you to turn in Sabbath-keepers to the authorities, during the upcoming Sunday-Sabbath crisis, how do you know if it is the right thing to do?

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97899
04/07/08 11:00 PM
04/07/08 11:00 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (John 10:27)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97920
04/08/08 07:56 AM
04/08/08 07:56 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
TV: One is, knowing the true voice of the sheepherd is a better defence against imposters than any amount of secondary knowledge.

MM: How do you discern between voices? If a voice or spirit tells you to keep the Sunday instead of the Sabbath day, how do you know if it is telling you the truth? If a voice or spirit tells you to turn in Sabbath-keepers to the authorities, during the upcoming Sunday-Sabbath crisis, how do you know if it is the right thing to do?
Abraham, knowing the voice of God bound his son Isaac on a stone altar in obedience and through this he was confirmed as righteous.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97921
04/08/08 07:58 AM
04/08/08 07:58 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, it sounds like you're not concerned about whether or not people accept the truth regarding imitating Jesus' example in keeping the Sabbath and believing in soul-sleep.

If it doesn't matter if people break the Sabbath or don't believe in soul-sleep, like Jesus did, what is Jesus waiting for? Why hasn't He returned yet? To break one commandment is to break them all, so why wait? So long as everyone chooses for or against believing Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, it shouldn't matter if they keep or break this or that commandment, right? If not sinning is not important, why wait?
As I cannot make anyone accpet or reject sabbath or soul-sleep, being over the edge concerned with it seems like a waste of time to me. Bring the person to Jesus and He will teach them all that they need to know. I have not been called to gather diciples of my own, merely to introduce others to the Lord. He will call them as His own diciples in due time. The Lord is Jesus and not any right belief about any subject, including sabbath or souls. So why does Jesus wait? Peter was of the opinion that Jesus waits until such a time when no more people will choose Life. Obviously there are still people who are willing to choose God if they are introduced to Him.

Does the Gospel Commission apply to you personally? "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."

Matthew
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
And what has Christ commanded us to observe?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97938
04/08/08 05:35 PM
04/08/08 05:35 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TV: And what has Christ commanded us to observe?

MM: "All things." No doubt this includes the law and the prophets. "To the law and to the testimony." What else do you think it includes?

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97939
04/08/08 05:38 PM
04/08/08 05:38 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
TV: One is, knowing the true voice of the sheepherd is a better defence against imposters than any amount of secondary knowledge.

MM: How do you discern between voices? If a voice or spirit tells you to keep the Sunday instead of the Sabbath day, how do you know if it is telling you the truth? If a voice or spirit tells you to turn in Sabbath-keepers to the authorities, during the upcoming Sunday-Sabbath crisis, how do you know if it is the right thing to do?

TV: Abraham, knowing the voice of God bound his son Isaac on a stone altar in obedience and through this he was confirmed as righteous.

But how do you (not Abraham) discern between voices? Would you turn in or kill Sabbath-keepers if a voice told you so?

If a voice or spirit tells you to keep the Sunday instead of the Sabbath day, how do you know if it is telling you the truth?

If a voice or spirit tells you to turn in Sabbath-keepers to the authorities, during the upcoming Sunday-Sabbath crisis, how do you know if it is the right thing to do?

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97947
04/08/08 06:25 PM
04/08/08 06:25 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
TV: And what has Christ commanded us to observe?

MM: "All things." No doubt this includes the law and the prophets. "To the law and to the testimony." What else do you think it includes?
As Jesus told the pious pharisees, while titheing seeds of mint, dill and cummin are included, the weightier matters are justice for the defenceless and lowly, mercy to the sinner and faithfullness to all.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97950
04/08/08 06:43 PM
04/08/08 06:43 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
 Quote:
TV: One is, knowing the true voice of the sheepherd is a better defence against imposters than any amount of secondary knowledge.

MM: How do you discern between voices? If a voice or spirit tells you to keep the Sunday instead of the Sabbath day, how do you know if it is telling you the truth? If a voice or spirit tells you to turn in Sabbath-keepers to the authorities, during the upcoming Sunday-Sabbath crisis, how do you know if it is the right thing to do?

TV: Abraham, knowing the voice of God bound his son Isaac on a stone altar in obedience and through this he was confirmed as righteous.

But how do you (not Abraham) discern between voices? Would you turn in or kill Sabbath-keepers if a voice told you so?

If a voice or spirit tells you to keep the Sunday instead of the Sabbath day, how do you know if it is telling you the truth?

If a voice or spirit tells you to turn in Sabbath-keepers to the authorities, during the upcoming Sunday-Sabbath crisis, how do you know if it is the right thing to do?
In the end it wont help me an inch closer to Life to know all the truths about sabbath and soulsleap or any other truth and preach these things loud from every street corner and in every gathering where people are found if I do not recognise the voice of the Sheepherd. I could preach these in every tounge under the heavens and prophecy them to all who would hear me, I could give all my belongings and even my life for the success of this knowledge but if I do not know the voice of the Sheepherd it will not avail me at all.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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