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Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Tom] #101396
08/08/08 12:16 AM
08/08/08 12:16 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
I think Col. 2:14 and Eph. 2:15 should be considered as parallel passages, since both speak of dogmasin (ordinances).

Colossians 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us. He took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that He might make in Himself one new man out of the two, so making peace,

The passage speaks of "the law of commandments contained in ordinances." So it refers to commandments, but not all commandments - just the commandments contained in ordinances. We should also bear in mind that Moses wrote many commandments - some of them related to the ceremonial law, and some which constituted an unfolding of the moral law.

Now some EGW comments about it:

"There are many who try to blend these two systems, using the texts that speak of the ceremonial law to prove that the moral law has been abolished; but this is a perversion of the Scriptures. The distinction between the two systems is broad and clear. The ceremonial system was made up of symbols pointing to Christ, to His sacrifice and His priesthood. This ritual law, with its sacrifices and ordinances, was to be performed by the Hebrews until type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Then all the sacrificial offerings were to cease. It is this law that Christ 'took . . . out of the way, nailing it to His cross.' Colossians 2:14." (PP 365)

"Through Christ the hidden glory of the holy of holies was to stand revealed. He had suffered death for every man, and by this offering the sons of men were to become the sons of God. With open face, beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, believers in Christ were to be changed into the same image, from glory to glory. The mercy seat, upon which the glory of God rested in the holiest of all, is opened to all who accept Christ as the propitiation for sin, and through its medium, they are brought into fellowship with God. The veil is rent, the partition walls broken down, the handwriting of ordinances canceled. By virtue of His blood the enmity is abolished. Through faith in Christ Jew and Gentile may partake of the living bread" (Letter 230, 1907). {5BC 1109.1}

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Rosangela] #101398
08/08/08 03:33 AM
08/08/08 03:33 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Eph. 2:15 is speaking principally of the enmity between God and man, which is taken away in Christ. Only if men are right with God can they be right with each other.

Col. 2:14 speaks of something which was against us. An interpretation of Col. 2:14 must deal with, as this is a fundamental point. What was against us? Was the ceremonial law against us?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Rosangela] #101406
08/08/08 04:36 PM
08/08/08 04:36 PM
S
scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Wyoming, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
I think Col. 2:14 and Eph. 2:15 should be considered as parallel passages, since both speak of dogmasin (ordinances).

Colossians 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us. He took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that He might make in Himself one new man out of the two, so making peace,

The passage speaks of "the law of commandments contained in ordinances." So it refers to commandments, but not all commandments - just the commandments contained in ordinances. We should also bear in mind that Moses wrote many commandments - some of them related to the ceremonial law, and some which constituted an unfolding of the moral law.

Now some EGW comments about it:

"There are many who try to blend these two systems, using the texts that speak of the ceremonial law to prove that the moral law has been abolished; but this is a perversion of the Scriptures. The distinction between the two systems is broad and clear. The ceremonial system was made up of symbols pointing to Christ, to His sacrifice and His priesthood. This ritual law, with its sacrifices and ordinances, was to be performed by the Hebrews until type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Then all the sacrificial offerings were to cease. It is this law that Christ 'took . . . out of the way, nailing it to His cross.' Colossians 2:14." (PP 365)

"Through Christ the hidden glory of the holy of holies was to stand revealed. He had suffered death for every man, and by this offering the sons of men were to become the sons of God. With open face, beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, believers in Christ were to be changed into the same image, from glory to glory. The mercy seat, upon which the glory of God rested in the holiest of all, is opened to all who accept Christ as the propitiation for sin, and through its medium, they are brought into fellowship with God. The veil is rent, the partition walls broken down, the handwriting of ordinances canceled. By virtue of His blood the enmity is abolished. Through faith in Christ Jew and Gentile may partake of the living bread" (Letter 230, 1907). {5BC 1109.1}


Hi Rosangela,

Paul is very clear that it is the Old Covenant He is talking about especially if you put all of what he has to say about the subject together. Colossians 2, 2 Corinthians 3, Galatians 3, and Hebrews 8 all say the same thing. God entered Covenant with Israel and there was nothing wrong with the covenant, but it didn’t have the power to save because of the hardness of the hearts of the people. Therefore God promised a new covenant where He would write the same law (the principle of love) on the hearts of any individual who would believe in the Messiah.

The 10 Commandments are called the ministration of death in 2 Corinthians 3. They are an expression of God’s character in words contained on stone. Why do we spend so much time trying to preserve the lesser expression of God’s character when we have such a greater expression of God’s character in Jesus? The 10 Commandments were the standard of righteousness expressed in the OC law of ordinances, but Jesus is the standard of righteousness expressed in the NC law of love.

Both of the quotes of Ellen’s are making the point that some people use Paul to try “to prove that the moral law has been abolished”. No one here is advocating the abolishment of the moral law. We simply believe that Jesus taught it better and expressed God’s character better and in the light of Jesus the expression of God’s character in the 10 Commandments is dull and ready to pass away along with the rest of the OC that was a shadow of Christ.

 Quote:
Hebrews 1:1-3 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature . . .


scott

Last edited by scott; 08/08/08 06:57 PM.
Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Tom] #101411
08/08/08 07:10 PM
08/08/08 07:10 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Tom,

What is "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" that Christ "abolished in His flesh" (Eph. 2:15)?

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: scott] #101414
08/08/08 07:18 PM
08/08/08 07:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Scott,

What Paul says in v. 14 that Christ nailed to the cross is the part of the old covenant which was "a shadow of things to come," as he makes clear in v.17. So this refers to the ceremonial law, which prefigured Christ's work of salvation.

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Rosangela] #101415
08/08/08 07:51 PM
08/08/08 07:51 PM
S
scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Wyoming, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Scott,

What Paul says in v. 14 that Christ nailed to the cross is the part of the old covenant which was "a shadow of things to come," as he makes clear in v.17. So this refers to the ceremonial law, which prefigured Christ's work of salvation.


Hi Rosangela,

So what is the ministry of death written on stone that Paul is talking about here in 2 Corinthians 3?

 Quote:
7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!


Notice how it condemns men and is fading away! And notice how it is replaced by something so much more glorious that its former glory doesn't seem glorious at all.

scott

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: scott] #101416
08/08/08 08:11 PM
08/08/08 08:11 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
It is the old covenant, but I see no relationship between 2 Cor. 3 and Col. 2/ Eph. 2.

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Rosangela] #101427
08/08/08 11:05 PM
08/08/08 11:05 PM
S
scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Wyoming, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
It is the old covenant, but I see no relationship between 2 Cor. 3 and Col. 2/ Eph. 2.


I wasn't aware the the Old Covenant was written on stone!

My bad!

scott

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: scott] #101429
08/08/08 11:31 PM
08/08/08 11:31 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
The passage is speaking of the old covenant as contrasted with the new (see v.6 - "new covenant," and v. 14 - "old covenant"), although undoubtedly the most important part of the old covenant was the moral law. The ministry of death was the old covenant - the law without Christ.

But again, I see no relationship between 2 Cor. 3 and Col. 2/ Eph. 2.

Re: What was nailed to the cross in Col 2:14? [Re: Rosangela] #101438
08/09/08 03:51 AM
08/09/08 03:51 AM
S
scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Wyoming, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
The passage is speaking of the old covenant as contrasted with the new (see v.6 - "new covenant," and v. 14 - "old covenant"), although undoubtedly the most important part of the old covenant was the moral law. The ministry of death was the old covenant - the law without Christ.

But again, I see no relationship between 2 Cor. 3 and Col. 2/ Eph. 2.


Don't you wonder why Paul would refer to the Old Covenant as "written on stone" when it was written by Moses and put in the side of the ark. As I recall the only thing written on stone was the 10 Commandments.

I don't think I mentioned Eph. 2.

scott

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