What does this mean? Especially the consumed part. That is, what happens to the wicked that did not happen to Christ?

You're parsing my writing like a compiler parses code. Human communication doesn't work that way. It could, if English was as precise as Pascal or even C, but it's not.

When I said that Jesus didn't do anything we can't, the "do" was not meant to be understood as you did. IOW, I did not intend to include manifesting His own divinity as one of the things that we can do. However, the work that He accomplished by manifesting His divinity we can also do by manisting His divinity.


Divinity is divinity, whether it is the Father, Son, or Holy Ghost. That's why we can say there is one God.

But what I have in mind is that Jesus could manifest divinity that was inherently His. Any divinity flashing through us is only passing through us, and does not originate with us.

Re: Christ's divinity, review the DA commentary on the raising of Lazarus. That miracle was proof of Christ's divinity, not God's divinity working in Him. However, Paul's raising of Eutychus was not proof of Paul's divinity.


Note this:
This describes how we are to overcome. But it does not describe how Jesus overcame.

It seems to me that it refers to the complete destruction of the person as it will happen in hell.

"To sin, wherever found, God is a consuming fire. If you choose sin, and refuse to separate from it, the presence of God, which consumes sin, must consume you." {MB 62.1}

It's good to be back after some days away from home.


Being a sinner, it's difficult for me to imagine not being under the "umbrella" of His sacrifice. I understand that "living without a Mediator," in this case, just means not having someone to intercede for you in case you sin.

Yes, everlasting righteousness primarily qualifies us for eternal life; living without a mediator is strictly an earthly experience of faith which comes after Christ has fitted us for heavenly society which is also successful - thus completed - mediation. We are filled by the Spirit from this day to that and on throughout eternity: the Spirit of Jesus is only withdrawn from unbelievers at that or any time.:-)

Ok, I understood "do" to refer to things which Christ did. I'm not sure how else one would understand this.



So what you meant to say is that we can do anything Christ did, by the grace of God, except for the things He did which we can't do. Is that right?



This is what I thought you meant, which is why I pointed out you were contradicting yourself, because you said this, and then said He didn't do anything we can't do, by the grace of God.



So the raising of the dead is proof of divinity of a divine being does it, but not if a non-divine being does it.



It does! Jesus said:



How did He overcome the world? By faith.

He also said:



From EGW:





There are many of these. I know of no quote in either Scripture nor the SOP which supports your assertion that Christ overcame one way but we overcome another.

The quote you cited applied to Christ. Christ took our sinful human nature, which, apart from divine assistance, cannot overcome. Christ depended upon His Father, and overcame, by faith, just as we must. Everything Christ did in His battle against sin (including the battle against self) we can do by the grace of God.

What does that mean? Here you are using "complete destruction" as a synonym for "consume," but I still don't know what this means to you. Does it means consumed by literal fire? Or does it mean something else?



You answered my question by first using "complete destruction" as a synonym for "consumed." Here are you simply using "consumed" as an explanation of what "consumed" means. What I'm asking is what happens to the wicked that did not happen to Christ. This is an interesting question, I think.

Exactly. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to work out the nuances of "do."


That's what EGW said.


If so, then this should work:
The result of the eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is manifest in Christ's experience. There is in Christ's nature a bent to evil, a force which, unaided, Christ cannot resist. To withstand this force, to attain that ideal which in Christ's inmost soul Christ accepts as alone worthy, Christ can find help in but one power. That power is Christ.

I hope I don't have to explain how silly that new version is. And if you have to modify it to make it fit, then what I said holds.

Tom,

I don’t know exactly. We know, of course, that there will be literal fire in the lake of fire. But Ellen White also speaks of a figurative fire:

“Against every evildoer God's law utters condemnation. He may disregard that voice, he may seek to drown its warning, but in vain. It follows him. It makes itself heard. It destroys his peace. If unheeded, it pursues him to the grave. It bears witness against him at the judgement. A quenchless fire, it consumes at last soul and body.” {Ed 144.5}

So I think we will have two kinds of fire – the internal and the external. How exactly they will act (simultaneously? one after the other?) I don’t know.


Christ obviously wasn’t completely destroyed. Ellen White says He wasn’t consumed. Does this refer only to His soul, or to His soul and His body? It’s difficult to determine exactly what “consumed” means.

Arnold,

I would like to know your opinion about the points discussed in my post just above.