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Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: asygo] #101578
08/14/08 12:20 AM
08/14/08 12:20 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Character is repetitious thoughts, words, and behavior. A predictable momentum is established. God can infer future acts. "The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts." {SC 57.2}

"Any one act, either good or evil, does not form the character; but thoughts and feelings indulged prepare the way for acts and deeds of the same kind. It is . . . by a repetition of acts that habits are established and character confirmed. (CG 199)

"It is not through one act that the character is formed, but by a repetition of acts that habits are established and character confirmed. (ST 4-30-1894)

"Character does not come by chance. It is not determined by one outburst of temper, one step in the wrong direction. It is the repetition of the act that causes it to become habit, and molds the character either for good or for evil. (CG 164)

"A well-balanced character is formed by single acts well performed. One defect, cultivated instead of being overcome, makes the man imperfect, and closes against him the gate of the Holy City. (FLB 44)

Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: asygo] #101583
08/14/08 02:14 AM
08/14/08 02:14 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
Actually, what will count, in light of the IJ, is what we *did* before dying. By their fruits we will know them.


This simply indicates what we will do after being resurrected; it reveals our character. God will take all to heaven who will be happy there.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: Mountain Man] #101605
08/14/08 04:49 PM
08/14/08 04:49 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Character is repetitious thoughts, words, and behavior. A predictable momentum is established. God can infer future acts.

What about your cursing driver? Did God infer that, or was He caught by surprise? Was that in the "predictable momentum"?

BTW, your scenario never happens.

Last edited by asygo; 08/14/08 04:49 PM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: asygo] #101610
08/14/08 08:25 PM
08/14/08 08:25 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
God can infer future acts.


This forms no basis for the judgment; that is, no one is judged by something inferred in reference to a possible future.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: Tom] #101640
08/15/08 04:23 PM
08/15/08 04:23 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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Romans
4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

"Sin is not imputed when there is no law." Romans 5:13. What gives God the right to impute righteousness and to not impute sin? What does it mean to "not impute sin"? Under what conditions can God not impute sin? Must one be alive in order for God to not impute sin? In the case of people who die before they can repent of sins of ignorance, does God not impute their sin unto them? In the case of people who die before they can repent of a sin, will God not impute their sin unto them?

According to Strong's "impute" means:

G3049
λογίζομαι
logizomai
log-id'-zom-ahee
Middle voice from G3056; to take an inventory, that is, estimate (literally or figuratively): - conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).

Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: Mountain Man] #101663
08/16/08 03:27 AM
08/16/08 03:27 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
"Sin is not imputed when there is no law." Romans 5:13. What gives God the right to impute righteousness and to not impute sin?


This is not saying righteousness is imputed. It says sin is not imputed. Sin is not imputed because the person is not guilty of sin if he doesn't know he is doing wrong. It's the same thing as this:

 Quote:
Said the angel, "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet." Said the angel, "If light comes, and that light is set aside, or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject."(SG 4b page 3)


 Quote:
Under what conditions can God not impute sin?


Under the conditions the angel stated.

 Quote:
Must one be alive in order for God to not impute sin?


??? Dead people don't sin.

 Quote:
In the case of people who die before they can repent of sins


The character is determined by the trend of the life, not an occasional good deed or misdeed. Not repenting of some last minute sin is irrelevant.

 Quote:
of ignorance, does God not impute their sin unto them?


God never imputes sins of ignorance.

[quote]In the case of people who die before they can repent of a sin, will God not impute their sin unto them?[quote]

Their character will decide their destiny, not some last minute sin, or the lack of repentance thereof.

Regarding Strong's, "conclude" is a nice synonym, easily understood.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: Tom] #101666
08/16/08 03:37 AM
08/16/08 03:37 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
Sin is not imputed because the person is not guilty of sin if he doesn't know he is doing wrong.

But I thought you believe that sin is inherently fatal and carries with it guilt and destruction, regardless of what God does or does not do. This time, you seem to be saying that God must do something (impute) in order for sin to carry guilt. Am I understanding you right?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: asygo] #101671
08/16/08 03:58 AM
08/16/08 03:58 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Have you read Ty Gibson? If so, I agree with how he puts things in regards to guilt and the conscience.

Regarding God's doing something, the something He does is allow people to see the truth. God does not impute, or count, people as guilty of sin, (or, He does not "frown") because they aren't guilty. God is recognizing the truth of the matter. God strives to inform people of the reality of sin (that its inevitable result is death).

Do you disagree with the thought that sin is inherently fatal?



Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: Tom] #101696
08/17/08 05:03 PM
08/17/08 05:03 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
Have you read Ty Gibson? If so, I agree with how he puts things in regards to guilt and the conscience.

I have, but I don't remember what he said about guilt/conscience.

 Originally Posted By: Tom
Regarding God's doing something, the something He does is allow people to see the truth. God does not impute, or count, people as guilty of sin, (or, He does not "frown") because they aren't guilty. God is recognizing the truth of the matter. God strives to inform people of the reality of sin (that its inevitable result is death).

Is there any circumstance when God imputes sin?

 Originally Posted By: Tom
Do you disagree with the thought that sin is inherently fatal?

No. It is fatal, regardless of one's knowledge or lack thereof.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Does God Punish Suicide? [Re: asygo] #101699
08/17/08 05:58 PM
08/17/08 05:58 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
God imputes sin when one willfully does something one knows to be wrong:

 Quote:
Said the angel, "If light comes, and that light is set aside, or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject."(Spiritual Gifts Volume 4b page 3)


 Quote:
(Arnold)No. It is fatal, regardless of one's knowledge or lack thereof.


I'm not understanding this. Before light comes, there is no sin, so how could it be fatal? For example, not keeping the Sabbath is contrary to the 4th commandment, but if one knows nothing about it, how is it fatal?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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