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Re: Whose are we? #10181
09/29/03 11:17 PM
09/29/03 11:17 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Darius, Could you please summarise for us the principles of Aquinas approach to religious knowledge?

Re: Whose are we? #10182
09/29/03 11:29 PM
09/29/03 11:29 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
John,

Darius is presently unable to post in any forum of MSDAOL.

Re: Whose are we? #10183
09/30/03 04:07 PM
09/30/03 04:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Steve, I believe the angels bolded below symbolize the prayers of the 144,000.

Revelation
14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

Re: Whose are we? #10184
09/30/03 07:01 PM
09/30/03 07:01 PM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
Mike,
How is that possible when the angels are involved in an activity, i.e. carrying a sickle and harvesting? If those angels represent the prayers of the 144,000 then why aren't the 1st set of 3 angels in this same chapter symbolic of the prayers of the 144,000?

Re: Whose are we? #10185
10/01/03 01:56 AM
10/01/03 01:56 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Steve, I agree the angel that wields a sickle does not symbolize the praying 144,000. The angels I bolded above simply tell the other two that it's time to reap the harvest. It is this command that symbolizes the prayers of the 144,000 after probation closes.

Re: Whose are we? #10186
10/02/03 02:13 AM
10/02/03 02:13 AM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
Mike,
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Re: Whose are we? #10187
10/01/03 03:50 PM
10/01/03 03:50 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Sister White associated the 3AM's with the work of humans preaching the gospel and final warning. It makes sense to me that the other two angels symbolize the prayers of the 144,000 after probation closes. In "A Word to the Little Flock" James White applied it the same way.

Under the appropriate symbol of an angel flying through the midst of heaven is represented the work of the people of God. In this work heavenly intelligences co-operate with human agencies in extending the last message to the inhabitants of the world. {FE 208.2}

The third angel is represented as flying in the midst of heaven, symbolizing the work of those who proclaim the first, second, and third angel's messages; all are linked together. {3SM 405.2}

The fact that an angel is said to be the herald of this warning is significant. By the purity, the glory, and the power of the heavenly messenger, divine wisdom has been pleased to represent the exalted character of the work to be accomplished by the message and the power and glory that were to attend it. And the angel's flight "in the midst of heaven," the "loud voice" with which the warning is uttered, and its promulgation to all "that dwell on the earth,"--"to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"--give evidence of the rapidity and world-wide extent of the movement. {GC 355.2}

Re: Whose are we? #10188
10/01/03 04:30 PM
10/01/03 04:30 PM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
Thank you Mike for your response. Basically what you have shared is that we (our church) has no biblical support to interpret Rev 14 as we have, however our support for our interpretation is found in EGW....

Re: Whose are we? #10189
10/01/03 04:42 PM
10/01/03 04:42 PM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
I would hasten to add that since we have abandoned our stand that we use the bible and bible only as our rule of faith per the 27 Fundamental Beliefs, then we can interpret Rev 14 in the manner in which we have....

Re: Whose are we? #10190
10/01/03 06:14 PM
10/01/03 06:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Steve, it sounds like you are unimpressed with Sister White's insights? I value her input both as a Bible student and as a prophet. It is not uncommon for God to use one prophet to interpret another prophet. I am very comfortable with how God has used Sister White to interpret the prophecies of the Bible. To me that is not the same as saying we have no biblical basis for our 27 fundamental beliefs. We have the inspired commentary of a prophet of God. In my book it's not any different than the inspired commentaries of Matthew, Luke, Peter, Paul or John. Where would we be without their inspired insights?

And where would we be without Sister White? Obviously God thought we needed His help through her gift, otherwise He wouldn't have bothered calling her to serve the church as a prophet. Why do you suppose God felt we needed help understanding the Bible? Could it be because we needed help interpreting the prophecies?

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