Sabbath, unclean, priesthood, feasts, sacrifice, temple, and many other things pre-existed the OC. ... Dissecting the OC and keeping the parts that fit your fancy is one of the main reasons we have so many denominations and so much division in the church. The whole OC including the clean and unclean, tithing, 10C, ceremonial law, feast laws, tabernacle, priesthood, sacrifice, and everything it included represent an obsolete system of law that didn't have the power to change our hearts, but they were proficient in leading us to Christ where we make peace with God and are filled with the Holy Spirit.

My understanding of what Scott has been saying is not that the things the law says to do have been done away, but the system of law has been superceded by Christ. Iow, Scott is not saying it's OK to lie, steal, kill, etc. In fact, Scott has been consistent in saying he doesn't believe God ever does these things.

By Rosangela: How can you know which animals are clean and which are unclean? Only by reading these instructions in the OC (although they existed before it).

By Rosangela: And how can you know which are the commandments of God's law? Only by reading them in the OC (although they existed before it).

By Rosangela: Neither the clean/unclean laws nor the 10C have passed away, for the New Testament speaks clearly about them as still being valid for Christians.

I don't know how else to say it, but obviously I'm talking to deaf ears. If Rosangela wants to find her religion in an obsolete covenant that God entered with Israel to lead them to Christ then I guess it is her prerogative. She seems to feel that Christ missed a few points. I'm just wondering if the points He might have missed are really that important. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees.

I don’t need the OC at all to teach that it is unhealthy to eat pork. Now we have medical science that agrees with the bible.

By Rosangela: Neither the clean/unclean laws nor the 10C have passed away, for the New Testament speaks clearly about them as still being valid for Christians.
By Scott: What? Only if you ignore Galatians 3, Colossians 2, 2 Corinthians 3, and Hebrews 8!

MM: Yeah, the shadowy types were nice in theory but a burden in practice, especially for Jews who lived a long ways from Jerusalem and/or who were very poor. It is so much easier now than it was back then. Eating crackers and drinking juice once every 3 months is a breeze compared to yesteryear. I'm glad Jesus nailed the types to the cross, that He no longer requires us to observe them like the Jews once had to.

A: That's painting with quite a broad brush. Of course, the animal sacrifices pointed to the true Lamb, and therefore we do not do those anymore. But I can think of a few things that were not shadows.

1) The prohibition against pork. What did that foreshadow? Was that nailed to the cross?

2) Providing for strangers, widows, orphans. What did that foreshadow? Isn't that still a manifestation of the love that Jesus enjoins upon us today?

EGW said these things explained in finer detail how to love as the 10C requires. If they show us how to love, why would Jesus nail them to the cross? He would have as much reason to nail the 10C on the cross, which is what some argue.

MM: Arnold, the two points you outlined above were clearly not types or shadows that were nailed to the cross. I agree with you that they were given to help us keep and obey the 10Cs. Only the ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross.

S: I think you are missing the whole point of the scripture. Just because the law completed its work doesn't mean that everything it forbade in the OC is now sanctioned in the NC. The fact that prohibition on unclean animals was incorporated into the OC doesn't mean that it started there or that it ends there. Sabbath, unclean, priesthood, feasts, sacrifice, temple, and many other things pre-existed the OC. Unclean meats started as a health issue after the flood, but became a spiritual issue in the OC. Unclean meats are just as bad for your health now as they were from the beginning.

They were forbidden in the OC, but in the NC we find a different reason for staying away from them . . . We are God's temple and we are to take care of our bodies. We don't need the OC to tell us that nor do we need laws for believers when salvation is a personal issue and each believer has been given the Holy Spirit.

Providing for the widows and orphans doesn't need to be commanded by law when the Spirit of Christ is manifest in the NC. He writes the law on our hearts and we become empathetic to the needs of others.

Dissecting the OC and keeping the parts that fit your fancy is one of the main reasons we have so many denominations and so much division in the church. The whole OC including the clean and unclean, tithing, 10C, ceremonial law, feast laws, tabernacle, priesthood, sacrifice, and everything it included represent an obsolete system of law that didn't have the power to change our hearts, but they were proficient in leading us to Christ where we make peace with God and are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Once we have Christ and are filled with His Spirit we will pay much more than just tithe, be much more self controlled, be much more concerned with our health, love Christ's sacrifice much more than the animals, love Christ's priesthood, love the symbols of Christ's body, and much more likely to become like Christ because of the NC.

Scott, I agree with you, but I noticed you left out certain aspects of the law of Moses. Of the 613 laws articulated in the law of Moses which ones will we keep now that the Holy Spirit is dwelling within us, empowering us to be like Jesus? And, which ones will we not keep?

By Rosangela: Salvation can only be found under the new covenant. Nobody was ever saved by the old covenant. The old covenant was just a didactical covenant – a teaching tool. Many of its laws have lost their function. The civil laws lost their function when Israel ceased to be a theocracy. Sacrifices/temple/priesthood/circumcision/ceremonial uncleanness laws lost their function when the earthly temple was replaced by the heavenly one.

By Rosangela: However, some of the laws which were incorporated to the old covenant have always been valid. The prohibition to eat blood will last as long as mankind eats meat. The same is true about the distinction between clean and unclean animals. Tithing will last as long as man needs to recognize the Lord as the Sovereign of earth.

By Rosangela: The law of God in the form of the Ten Commandments came to exist with the entrance of sin in this world and will last as long as sin exists. There is no such thing as a law which is valid only for unconverted people. The Bible says nothing about this.

By scott: I don’t need the OC at all to teach that it is unhealthy to eat pork. Now we have medical science that agrees with the bible.

By Rosangela: What about those who lived during the period which went from the cross to the 20th century, who didn’t possess this evidence? How did they know that it was unhealthy to eat pork?

By Rosangela: Neither the clean/unclean laws nor the 10C have passed away, for the New Testament speaks clearly about them as still being valid for Christians.

By Scott: What? Only if you ignore Galatians 3, Colossians 2, 2 Corinthians 3, and Hebrews 8!

By Rosangela: You are misinterpreting the texts. The Bible does speak against the observance of the law as a mere letter, without the spirit, and against the observance of the law as a means of salvation. It does speak about a law "of commandments contained in ordinances” which was nailed to the cross. But it doesn’t say the ten commandments were abolished, annulled or made void.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.