As I see it, the SDA church is the only religious organization in the world that can experience the Laodicean condition and counsel. Why? Because it is the only church since 1844 that God has given the truth about the 3AM's. Thus the SDA church is the only church that can become complacent about experiencing or expressing the 3AM's. Being lukewarm about the mission of the 3AM's is the condition of Laodicea, and being on fire about them is the result of complying with the counsel to Laodicea.

Babylon symbolizes the rest of Christendom - Catholics and Protestantists. The Laodicean Church has been commissioned by God to 1) understand and experience the 3AM's, 2) proclaim and explain them to Babylonians, and 3) to call them out of Babylon and to join the ranks of Laodicea (Adventism). Since Babylon symbolizes non-SDA Christian organizations it cannot also symbolize Laodicea. Therefore the condition and counsel of Laodicea applies exclusively to the SDA Church.

Hi

My first impression was to ask myself, "is the secound post a case study on the egw quotes"? Anyhow...

How does this all work if we would look away from the 13 million body of SDA and close in on individual persons. After all, none of us are saved by being members of the SDA church but as idividuals who accept what Jesus did for us personally at calvary ~2000 years ago and open our hearts for Him to come in and be worshiped.

Im not entierly clear over where the 3 angels message enters the picture here. I thought we where talking about a group that thought they had everything while having nothing, would this imply that we dont have the 3 angels message? The 3 angels message, 3 angles telling the inhabitants of earth #1 worship Him who created earth and the heavens, #2 babylon is fallen, #3 they who worship the beast will burn, the holy ones will keep Gods commandments and the faith in Jesus. The only way this could work is if you belive that SDA IS the 3 angles. In that case I would wonder who the 7 angles in chapter 15-16 are, doing Gods will in cursing earth and its inhabbitants.

The catholic and protestantic churches that are babyoln here, are their characteristics their structures or their members? Can any sertain person or group of persons be babylon or is babylon a thought building, set of ideas or doctrines?

Many loose threads there is, or so I feel anyway... And an unexplainable desire to define the SDA church by spiritual arrogance...

/Thomas

Oops! Sorry about all those Ellen White quotes. I thought you were interested in taking a closer look at the Laodicean message in light of my comment on doctrinal error. I just assumed her insights would be helpful and appreciated. Her assessment of the Laodicean condition suggests they have a head knowledge of the mission and message of the SDA Church but are lacking in heart service and committment.

The connection between the 3AM's and Laodicea has to do with the mission and message of the final generation of born again believers. It's based on the idea or interpretation that the Laodiceans who have purchased the gold, white raiment and eyesalve are the ones who fulfill the prophecy recorded in Rev 14:6-12.

Since Jesus commissioned the church to preach the gospel to everyone everywhere it stands to reason that the final generation of believers are the ones who finish proclaiming the gospel. It also makes sense to me that since the 3AM's are an integral part of the gospel commission, and that since Laodiceans compose the final generation, then they are the ones who preach the 3AM's during the MOB crisis.

Matthew
24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Revelation
14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

See what I mean?

Hi

You dont have to appologize for the quotes. The reaction was partly based on the quotes not saying the same thing as the following post by you. Not without some major assuming being done anyway.

And where did the interpretation became so exclusive that you could state that laodicea is SDA and no other christians. Neither the bible nor the quoted ellen white texts gives foundation for that IMO, again this without the addition of some major assumptions...

And what does "MOB crisis" stand for?

/Thomas

You're right, the quotes I provided were intended to establish her thoughts on the Laodicean message as it applies to SDA Church. The other stuff I posted was intended to demonstrate the link between Laodicea and the 3AM's. Sorry I misrepresented the EGW quotes. I didn't mean to imply they supported my thoughts on linking Laodicea and the 3AM's. Aside from this mess, what did you think about my rationale for linking the two?

MOB stands for mark of the beast.

Based on what you wrote now and earlier, I still seems that you see SDA as doing the work of the three angels, is this right and if yes, could you comment on who will do the work of the angles in the following chapters.

I would also follow that this all will be finnished some time in the future, right? For the SDA as a group, has it bought an collective eyesalve and clothes to give out.

Perhaps you could tell me why we are to assume that the seven churches are a timeline compared to view them as different aspects of the church present at all times between when it was written till Jesus comes back for His church/bride.

/Thomas

I subscribe to the historical view of interpreting the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation. Which is why I believe the 7 churches symbolize the history of Christendom - beginning with the apostolic era and ending with the translation generation of born again remnant believers. There are other threads which vindicate the historical view, so perhaps it is not best to rehash it here.

If a person can conclude that Laodicea symbolizes the translation generation of saints then it stands to reason that they are the ones who finish the gospel commission. Since the everlasting gospel is part of the 3AM's, and since it is not ludicrous to suggest the messages of the three angels could be fulfilled by humans, I believe it is reasonable to conclude the three angels symbolize Laodiceans proclaiming the final warning messages.

On the other hand, I do not believe it makes sense to suggest that the natural disasters and spiritual darkness associated with the 7 last plagues can be fulfilled by the translation generation of saints. Thus I am led to conclude Rev 16 describes events fulfilled by real angels and not symbolic ones.

GC 594.2
"When God sends to men warnings so important that they are represented as proclaimed by holy angels flying in the midst of heaven, He requires every person endowed with reasoning powers to heed the message."

GC 614.2
"The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere."

About the angles. You are ofcourse right that God could use the last time christians to spread the 3 anlges message. The objection or question here ofcourse is if it wouldnt be awfully inconsistent to say angles and mean the church in one place and then a dozen sentences further on say angles and mean real nonhuman angles...

And then there is still the question of why laodicea would be equal to and limmited with SDA, here you said what you believe but the references where lacking, at best.

/Thomas

I guess I don't perceive it as an inconsistency. The Revelation is full of symbolism. I've tried to explain why I believe Laodicea symbolizes the SDA Church, maybe at this point it would be better to hear what you believe about it? I'm not dodging your questions, but sometimes it helps to know where someone is coming from. Would you be willing to support your views at this point? or would you prefer it if we labored over my views instead? I'm game either way.

Yes, revelation is full of symbolism, but the symbols shouldnt change meaning without explanation in the middle of it all...

About what I believe in this all. I have heard the view that the churches is a timeline and I have heard that they are all coexistent different angles of christendom. I dont know which is right and which is wrong, or if it perhaps can be seen as both, perhaps you know things I dont that would clarify things. In any case, I feel kind of sceptical to the idea that revelation should deal specificly with the SDA church. Salvation isnt a group buissness even though group belonging may help with growing in faith. So assuming the timeline interpretation of the seven churches is right, laodicea is christians who may or may not be members of the SDA church.

Thats this about this particular issue, lets play two sets at once, your serve.

/Thomas