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Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Tom] #103028
09/22/08 05:58 PM
09/22/08 05:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
What makes it apples and oranges is not having a connection that I can see. As I said, you'd have to explain how this relates for me to comment beyond this. You didn't do so. You just asked questions.

In the following story God orders Moses to stone to death a blasphemer. "The man was placed in ward until the will of the Lord could be ascertained. God Himself pronounced the sentence; by the divine direction the blasphemer was conducted outside the camp and stoned to death."

What did God do to comfort the blasphemer's wife and children and extended family?

 Quote:
Enraged at this decision, he cursed the judge, and in the heat of passion blasphemed the name of God. He was immediately brought before Moses. The command had been given, "He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21:17); but no provision had been made to meet this case. So terrible was the crime that there was felt to be a necessity for special direction from God. The man was placed in ward until the will of the Lord could be ascertained. God Himself pronounced the sentence; by the divine direction the blasphemer was conducted outside the camp and stoned to death. Those who had been witness to the sin placed their hands upon his head, thus solemnly testifying to the truth of the charge against him. Then they threw the first stones, and the people who stood by afterward joined in executing the sentence. {PP 407.5}

This was followed by the announcement of a law to meet similar offenses: "Thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death." Leviticus 24:15, 16. {PP 408.1}

There are those who will question God's love and His justice in visiting so severe punishment for words spoken in the heat of passion. But both love and justice require it to be shown that utterances prompted by malice against God are a great sin. The retribution visited upon the first offender would be a warning to others, that God's name is to be held in reverence. But had this man's sin been permitted to pass unpunished, others would have been demoralized; and as the result many lives must eventually have been sacrificed. {PP 408.2}

Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Mountain Man] #103038
09/22/08 06:54 PM
09/22/08 06:54 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
What does this have to do with anything? Why don't you just make whatever point you wish to make regarding why suffering exists and how God comforts the victims of it.

Is your point that God in the story is causing the suffering and the victims are just getting what they deserve? I'm sorry if I'm guessing wrong here, but I don't know what you're trying to get at.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Tom] #103089
09/23/08 03:02 PM
09/23/08 03:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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The story is what it is. God ordered Moses to stone the blasphemer to death. Being stoned to death is a slow, agonizing process. They suffer greatly. Such suffering is not the result of natural law, nor is it the result of Satan doing it. They suffer and die because God ordered it. The question is - How does He comfort the loved ones of the one stoned to death? What does He tell them? How does He explain why He ordered the execution of their loved one?

Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Mountain Man] #103097
09/23/08 09:05 PM
09/23/08 09:05 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
He tells them this:

In heaven itself this law was broken. Sin originated in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. He led them to doubt the word of God, and to distrust His goodness. Because God is a God of justice and terrible majesty, Satan caused them to look upon Him as severe and unforgiving. Thus he drew men to join him in rebellion against God, and the night of woe settled down upon the world.

The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2.

Turning from all lesser representations, we behold God in Jesus. Looking unto Jesus we see that it is the glory of our God to give. "I do nothing of Myself," said Christ; "the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father." "I seek not Mine own glory," but the glory of Him that sent Me. John 8:28; 6:57; 8:50; 7:18. In these words is set forth the great principle which is the law of life for the universe. All things Christ received from God, but He took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all. And thus through Christ the circuit of beneficence is complete, representing the character of the great Giver, the law of life.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Tom] #103154
09/25/08 05:30 PM
09/25/08 05:30 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
MM: God ordered Moses to stone the blasphemer to death. Being stoned to death is a slow, agonizing process. They suffer greatly. Such suffering is not the result of natural law, nor is it the result of Satan doing it. They suffer and die because God ordered it. The question is - How does He comfort the loved ones of the one stoned to death? What does He tell them? How does He explain why He ordered the execution of their loved one?

TE: He tells them this:

Tom, the DA 21, 22 quote you posted above barely explains why God ordered Moses to stone the blasphemer to death - "God is a God of justice and terrible majesty". But the following insights seem more to the point:

There are those who will question God's love and His justice in visiting so severe punishment for words spoken in the heat of passion. But both love and justice require it to be shown that utterances prompted by malice against God are a great sin. The retribution visited upon the first offender would be a warning to others, that God's name is to be held in reverence. But had this man's sin been permitted to pass unpunished, others would have been demoralized; and as the result many lives must eventually have been sacrificed. {PP 408.2}

The forbearance that God has exercised toward the wicked, emboldens men in transgression; but their punishment will be none the less certain and terrible for being long delayed. . . . While He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who become hardened in sin. . . . And the very fact of His reluctance to execute justice testifies to the enormity of the sins that call forth His judgments and to the severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor. {CC 155.4}

To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Eze. 33:11. . . . Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Ex. 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {FLB 338.5}

After God has done all that could be done to save men, if they still show by their lives that they slight offered mercy, death will be their portion; and it will be a dreadful death, for they will have to feel the agony that Christ felt upon the cross. They will then realize what they have lost--eternal life and the immortal inheritance. {FLB 338.6}

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. The death of the spotless Son of God testifies that "the wages of sin is death," that every violation of God's law must receive its just retribution. Christ the sinless became sin for man. He bore the guilt of transgression, and the hiding of His Father's face, until His heart was broken and His life crushed out. All this sacrifice was made that sinners might be redeemed. In no other way could man be freed from the penalty of sin. And every soul that refuses to become a partaker of the atonement provided at such a cost must bear in his own person the guilt and punishment of transgression. {GC 539.3}

Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Mountain Man] #103164
09/25/08 07:56 PM
09/25/08 07:56 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Repeating my question from a few posts ago:

 Quote:
What does this have to do with anything? Why don't you just make whatever point you wish to make regarding why suffering exists and how God comforts the victims of it.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Tom] #103259
09/28/08 04:12 PM
09/28/08 04:12 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Does God allow evil to run its course? Well, what is evil? Is it everything that happens that appears to be bad? For example, is executing capital punishment evil? What is the definition of evil?

Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Mountain Man] #103275
09/28/08 07:11 PM
09/28/08 07:11 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Evil is what is contrary to God's character.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does God allow evil to run its course...... [Re: Tom] #103455
10/07/08 04:49 PM
10/07/08 04:49 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Is commanding Moses to execute capital punishment evil?

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