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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Tom]
#102580
09/13/08 02:31 PM
09/13/08 02:31 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"God suffered him to fall under the power of Satan, the dominion of death, and hid him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth. Moses erred as he was about to enter the Promised Land. So also, I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth."
Why did God suffer Brother Miller to die?
Did he repent of his sin before he died?
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102606
09/14/08 02:46 AM
09/14/08 02:46 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Why did God suffer Brother Miller to die? I don't know. How could I know this? Just guessing, he was 67, so probably he died because of his health. Did he repent of his sin before he died? What sin?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Tom]
#102622
09/14/08 04:25 PM
09/14/08 04:25 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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That God "suffered" him to die implies it was premature. She also implies it was to hide "him in the grave from those who were constantly drawing him from the truth."
She compares his error to the error of Moses. Did Moses sin in striking the rock? Did he repent? The same answers apply to Miller.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102633
09/14/08 05:31 PM
09/14/08 05:31 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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That God "suffered" him to die implies it was premature. Why? "Suffered" just means "allowed." God allowed him to die. That means He did nothing special to prevent him from dying. Miller was 67, quite old for that time. Why would you read "God allowed Him to die" as implying that his death was premature? The life expectancy in 1800 was around 25. So his life was well over twice the life expectancy of the time. It seems odd to call the death of someone who outlived his life expectancy by over twice to be "premature"! She compares his error to the error of Moses. Did Moses sin in striking the rock? Did he repent? The same answers apply to Miller. It looks like your applying her comparison in a way she wasn't using it. She specifies the comparison to be in regards to allowing his influence to be used against the truth. There's a big difference between Miller and Moses, however, which is that Moses knew what he was doing was wrong. Moses' repentance was deep and immediate. I'm not aware that Miller had any inkling that he was doing anything wrong. Do you? Also, why are you asking these questions?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Tom]
#102651
09/15/08 12:56 AM
09/15/08 12:56 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"... I saw that William Miller erred ..." Did Miller err, or didn't he?
The point is - God allows people to die before they can repent. The fact they will be admitted to heaven is evidence God imputed repentance to them in judgment.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102662
09/15/08 01:50 AM
09/15/08 01:50 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Yes, he erred. This is what she said, not that he sinned, as you put it. The point is - God allows people to die before they can repent. Yes, I agree. Indeed, this is the point I've been making, that such repentance is unnecessary The fact they will be admitted to heaven is evidence God imputed repentance to them in judgment. No it's not. It's evidence that such repentance is not necessary. Why are bring Miller into this? He erred in regards to something he didn't know was wrong. Why would he need to repent for this?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Tom]
#102686
09/15/08 04:31 PM
09/15/08 04:31 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"Moses erred as he was about to enter the Promised Land." Did he sin?
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102703
09/15/08 07:56 PM
09/15/08 07:56 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Moses sinned and repented. Miller erred, did not knowingly sin, and, of course, did not repent for something he didn't know.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Tom]
#102724
09/16/08 01:38 PM
09/16/08 01:38 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"Moses erred as he was about to enter the Promised Land. So also, I saw that William Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth."
If what you say is true, why, then, didn't she say so? Instead, she "so also", which in most minds means their cases are the same.
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Re: Does God Punish Suicide?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#102729
09/16/08 02:16 PM
09/16/08 02:16 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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They're cases were similar in that they both erred. Please consider the context.
If their cases were the same, then Miller would have had to have known what he was doing was wrong. Is this what you think? That Miller knew the truth about the Sabbath, but liked about it?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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