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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #102890
09/18/08 08:52 PM
09/18/08 08:52 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
At what point did it become a sin for a brother to marry his sister?


Maybe the second generation after Adam and Eve(?).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Rosangela] #102911
09/19/08 03:21 PM
09/19/08 03:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
 Quote:
God accommodated polygamy, divorce, slavery, and capital punishment in the law of Moses for good reasons. The idea that God included them in the law of Moses fully intending to wean the Jews from them later on is unbiblical.

In the law of Moses there is a provision in case of divorce. But what does God say about divorce, still in the OT, 400 years before Christ?

Malachi 2:16 "For the LORD God of Israel says that He hates divorce"

Apparently God hates adultery more than He hates divorce.

Again, Jesus isn't saying, "God compromised and accommodated sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses." Do you believe, especially in light of the all SOP quotes I posted earlier on t his thread describing the function and purpose of the law of Moses, that God, because of the sin-hardened Jews, compromised and accommodated some of their sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses?

If so, to what end? Why would God compromise?

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #102912
09/19/08 03:25 PM
09/19/08 03:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
 Quote:
Jesus isn't saying, "God compromised and accommodated sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses."

People are accommodated, not practices. God accommodated an ignorant, stiff-necked people. The writ of divorce is a perfect example of this. Because of the hardness of their heart, God permitted them to have divorce. But this was never God's will. God has always hated divorce.

Are you saying God compromised and made provision for the sinful practices sinful people practiced? To what end? Why didn't He just set the record straight at the get go? If you say something like, Because they were too hardened by sin to understand why God hates it, then please post the quotes to support it. Thank you.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #102913
09/19/08 03:29 PM
09/19/08 03:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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The idea that God included polygamy, divorce, slavery, and capital punishment in the law of Moses fully intending to wean the Jews from them later on is unbiblical. Here's what God said about them:

Deuteronomy
4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do [them], that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy
7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
7:10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
7:11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

Deuteronomy
12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #102932
09/19/08 08:01 PM
09/19/08 08:01 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
PTI (although I expect Rosangela will respond also)

 Quote:
Apparently God hates adultery more than He hates divorce.


No way! Divorce is the termination of a relationship, a type of death. Adultery is a terrible thing, and can, of course, lead to divorce, but no way is adultery a worse thing than divorce.

 Quote:
Again, Jesus isn't saying, "God compromised and accommodated sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses." Do you believe, especially in light of the all SOP quotes I posted earlier on t his thread describing the function and purpose of the law of Moses, that God, because of the sin-hardened Jews, compromised and accommodated some of their sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses? If so, to what end? Why would God compromise?


I'm butting in here because I am the one who spoke of accommodation, and I did so in regards to the Israelites. God accommodated the Israelites, not sinful practices. He did so because of the hardness of their hearts, and their ignorance. He had no choice in this matter, as in order to teach someone you have to start with where they are, and then walk them step by step to where you want them to go.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #102938
09/19/08 09:12 PM
09/19/08 09:12 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
Apparently God hates adultery more than He hates divorce.

What is your basis for saying so? He hates both equally, because divorce leads to adultery.

Matthew 5:32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

How does the fact that He hates divorce equate with your statement that "God accommodated ... divorce ...in the law of Moses for good reasons"?
God did not accomodate divorce in the law of Moses. God gave an instruction in the law of Moses designed to minimize the bad results of divorce.

 Quote:
Do you believe, especially in light of the all SOP quotes I posted earlier on t his thread describing the function and purpose of the law of Moses, that God, because of the sin-hardened Jews, compromised and accommodated some of their sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses?

As I said previously, God just gave instructions in the law of Moses to minimize the bad results of some sinful practices they were already engaged in when they entered into covenant with God.

 Quote:
... especially in light of the all SOP quotes I posted earlier on this thread describing the function and purpose of the law of Moses ...

You have to harmonize these quotes with other quotes like the following ones:

In the beginning, God gave to Adam one wife, thus showing his order. He never designed that man should have a plurality of wives. ... This [polygamy] was one of the great sins of the inhabitants of the old world, which brought the wrath of God upon them. This custom was practiced after the flood, and became so common that even righteous men fell into the practice, and had a plurality of wives. Yet it was no less sin because they became corrupted, and departed in this thing from God's order. {ST, March 27, 1879 par. 2}

God has not sanctioned polygamy in a single instance. It was contrary to his will. He knew that the happiness of man would be destroyed by it. {ST, March 27, 1879 par. 3}

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #102939
09/19/08 09:17 PM
09/19/08 09:17 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
The idea that God included polygamy, divorce, slavery, and capital punishment

I don't think capital punishment is included in the same category as the other practices mentioned. Capital punishment is another story.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Rosangela] #102941
09/19/08 10:14 PM
09/19/08 10:14 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
By the way, MM, I hadn't followed this discussion from the beginning, but I happened to open the first page and saw that you consider polygamy a violation of the law, but not a violation of the 7th commandment. Therefore, now I cannot understand your argument, especially in view of the SOP quotes you posted earlier in this thread. Are you saying that God accommodated in the law of Moses a practice which violated His moral law?

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Rosangela] #102949
09/19/08 11:35 PM
09/19/08 11:35 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
This is a minor point, as I agree with the points you are making in terms of the general conversation.

 Quote:
What is your basis for saying so? He hates both equally, because divorce leads to adultery.


Ordinarily I'm a bit reticent to speak for God, but I'm quite sure He hates divorce more than adultery. Adultery is a terrible sin, which can lead to divorce, which is a type of death. It's a terrible thing, but not terminal. Divorce (assuming there's no reconciliation) is terminal.

To say that God hates divorce because it leads to adultery seems to me like saying that God hates death because it leads to sickness.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #103002
09/22/08 01:52 AM
09/22/08 01:52 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
MM: Apparently God hates adultery more than He hates divorce.

TE: No way! Divorce is the termination of a relationship, a type of death. Adultery is a terrible thing, and can, of course, lead to divorce, but no way is adultery a worse thing than divorce.

The evidence doesn't support your observation.

 Quote:
MM: Again, Jesus isn't saying, "God compromised and accommodated sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses." Do you believe, especially in light of the all SOP quotes I posted earlier on t his thread describing the function and purpose of the law of Moses, that God, because of the sin-hardened Jews, compromised and accommodated some of their sinful practices by including them in the law of Moses? If so, to what end? Why would God compromise?

TE: I'm butting in here because I am the one who spoke of accommodation, and I did so in regards to the Israelites. God accommodated the Israelites, not sinful practices. He did so because of the hardness of their hearts, and their ignorance. He had no choice in this matter, as in order to teach someone you have to start with where they are, and then walk them step by step to where you want them to go.

Please support your assertion with inspired quotes. I find it hard to believe God compromises with sin or sinners. The idea that accommodating sinners is not compromising with sin doesn't hold water. Winking at sin perpetuates it. We had an expression when I worked for Amazing Facts as an evangelist - What you win them with is what you win them to. Listen:

The gospel makes no compromise with evil. It cannot excuse sin. {DA 811.2}

He made no compromise with sin, and many were turned from their unrighteousness. {COL 278.2}

So all who compromise with sin will gain only sorrow and ruin. {DA 738.3}

Christ never made peace by anything like compromise. {Ev 368.3}

God makes no compromise with sin. {1SM 313.1}

God will not make the slightest compromise with sin. {5BC 1144.2}

Real piety begins when all compromise with sin is at an end. {MB 91.2}

The truth of God knows no compromise with sin, no connection with artifice, no union with transgression. {4T 80.3}

Sin and holiness can make no compromise. The Bible contains no sanction of ungodliness, no sweet words of forbearance and charity for the persistently impenitent. {4T 624.3}

This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. {GC 50.1}

The reconciliation of mercy and justice did not involve any compromise with sin, or ignore any claim of justice; but by giving to each divine attribute its ordained place, mercy could be exercised in the punishment of sinful, impenitent man without destroying its clemency or forfeiting its compassionate character, and justice could be exercised in forgiving the repenting transgressor without violating its integrity. {1SM 260.2}

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