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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #103003
09/22/08 02:12 AM
09/22/08 02:12 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, it is true that God hates divorce and adultery. I didn't mean to say otherwise. But adultery is a cause for which God permitted divorce. Have you ever been married to someone who cheated on you? I can testify that adultery is more painful than divorce.

The law of Moses permitted lawful polygamy. By implication it condemns unlawful polygamy. The same distinction applies to kill versus murder. Unlawful polygamy violates the first commandment. Polygamists do not commit adultery because they are married. Adultery involves having sex with someone other than your spouse.

As I see it, the quotes you posted do not conflict with the quotes I posted concerning the function of the law of Moses. Again, here is what she wrote about it:

In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon men in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law (Ibid., April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.6}

You wrote, "God gave an instruction in the law of Moses designed to minimize the bad results of divorce." Can you substantiate this claim?

I included capital punishment in my list because Tom seems to think (correct me if I'm wrong, Tom) God permitted it for the same reasons you think God permitted divorce - because of the hardness of their hearts.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #103004
09/22/08 02:14 AM
09/22/08 02:14 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
1.If you're going to say something like, "the evidence doesn't support your conclusion," shouldn't you produce some?

2."Please support your assertion with inspired quotes."

MM, the following has been cited many times now:

 Quote:
He said to them, "It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning it was not this way.(Matt. 19:8)


Every single one of the quotes you presented have to do with your misrepresentation of what I stated, and not a single one with what I actually said.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #103005
09/22/08 02:26 AM
09/22/08 02:26 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
Have you ever been married to someone who cheated on you? I can testify that adultery is more painful than divorce.


This is an interesting observation. Adultery can be forgiven, if the guilty party is willing to be reconciled. But what can one do after divorce?

 Quote:
The law of Moses permitted lawful polygamy.


As Rosangela pointed out, it is not necessary to interpret the law of Moses as mandating polygamy. Even among those who do not have the Spirit of Prophecy, there are those who see the Levirate marriage along the lines she suggested.

With the SOP, it's really simple to see there's no such thing as "lawful polygamy" since she said that it was:

a.Contrary to God's will
b.A violation of God's law
c.Not sanctioned in a single instance

It appears you think God's law is fickle. Sometimes it condemns something like polygamy, but sometimes it doesn't. You mention the sixth commandment as another exception. How about the other commandments? Is it sometimes OK to have other gods before God? Is it sometimes OK to covet?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #103086
09/23/08 01:49 PM
09/23/08 01:49 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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Tom, both adultery and divorce are bad. Whether one is worse than other depends on the person and the situation. When adultery can be forgiven and the relationship repaired/restored then it is not as bad as divorce.

Of course in the beginning God did not intend for A&E to get divorced, but neither did He intend for them to sin. The introduction and commission of sin changes things drastically. God is forced by circumstances to do and permit things He would rather not. But mercy and justice make it expedient. All things are lawful but not all things are expedient.

God is not fickle. The law does not prohibit killing people in war or in cases involving capital punishment, nor does it prohibit having more than one spouse when circumstances make it necessary, nor does it prohibit divorce when the situation is needful.

One thing is certain, though, God did not compromise and include sinful practices in the law of Moses for any reason whatsoever. The idea that circumstances forced Him to temporarily allow certain sinful practices in the law of Moses is totally unbiblical.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #103094
09/23/08 05:11 PM
09/23/08 05:11 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
The idea that circumstances forced Him to temporarily allow certain sinful practices in the law of Moses is totally unbiblical.


How do you figure? We read:

 Quote:
He said to them, "It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning it was not this way.(Matt. 19:8)


yet Jesus explained that to divorce someone without adultery being involved is contrary to the law. So here is an example of the very thing you are saying is "unBiblical".


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #103151
09/25/08 01:23 PM
09/25/08 01:23 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The idea that circumstances forced God to temporarily allow sinful practices in the law of Moses is totally unbiblical. There was nothing temporary or sinful about the minute directions and requirements contained in the laws God commanded Moses to record. They were pure, noble, just, and humane. They were an amplification of the precepts and principles required by the moral law. Again, listen:

Where shall we find laws more noble, pure, and just, than are exhibited on the statute books wherein is recorded the instruction given to Moses for the children of Israel? Through all time these laws are to be perpetuated, that the character of God's people may be formed after the divine similitude. The law is a wall of protection to those who are obedient to God's precepts. {FE 393.2}

The minds of the people, blinded and debased by slavery and heathenism, were not prepared to appreciate fully the far-reaching principles of God's ten precepts. That the obligations of the Decalogue might be more fully understood and enforced, additional precepts were given, illustrating and applying the principles of the Ten Commandments. These laws were called judgments, both because they were framed in infinite wisdom and equity and because the magistrates were to give judgment according to them. Unlike the Ten Commandments, they were delivered privately to Moses, who was to communicate them to the people. {PP 310.1}

Moses was commanded to write, as God should bid him, judgments and laws giving minute instruction as to what was required. These directions relating to the duty of the people to God, to one another, and to the stranger were only the principles of the Ten Commandments amplified and given in a specific manner, that none need err. They were designed to guard the sacredness of the ten precepts engraved on the tables of stone. {PP 364.1}

The laws which God gave His ancient people were wiser, better, and more humane than those of the most civilized nations of the earth. The laws of the nations bear marks of the infirmities and passions of the unrenewed heart; but God's law bears the stamp of the divine. {PP 465.1}

The government of Israel was administered in the name and by the authority of God. The work of Moses, of the seventy elders, of the rulers and judges, was simply to enforce the laws that God had given; they had no authority to legislate for the nation. This was, and continued to be, the condition of Israel's existence as a nation. From age to age men inspired by God were sent to instruct the people and to direct in the enforcement of the laws. {PP 603.1}

He then came still closer to his people, and would not leave them, who were so readily led astray, with merely the ten precepts of the decalogue. He required Moses to write as he should bid him, judgments and laws, giving minute directions in regard to what he required them to perform, and thereby guarded the ten precepts which he had engraved upon the tables of stone. These specific directions and requirements were given to draw erring man to the obedience of the moral law which he is so prone to transgress. {3SG 299.1}

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #103162
09/25/08 06:35 PM
09/25/08 06:35 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
The idea that circumstances forced God to temporarily allow sinful practices in the law of Moses is totally unbiblical.


MM, the following has been quoted many times:

 Quote:
He said to them, "It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning it was not this way.(Matt. 19:8)


This is Biblical!


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #103257
09/28/08 01:57 PM
09/28/08 01:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
So what, Tom, it isn't addressing the issue. The point is:

The idea that circumstances forced God to temporarily allow sinful practices in the law of Moses is totally unbiblical. There was nothing temporary or sinful about the minute directions and requirements contained in the laws God commanded Moses to record. They were pure, noble, just, and humane. They were an amplification of the precepts and principles required by the moral law. The quotes posted above make this abundantly clear!

Do you agree?

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #103273
09/28/08 06:04 PM
09/28/08 06:04 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
What do you do with Matt. 19:8?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #103453
10/07/08 01:51 PM
10/07/08 01:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
God reworded the entire law to accommodate man in his sinful condition. Again, it doesn't mean God temporarily included sinful practices in the law because humans sin. The opposite is the case. Here's how Ellen put it:

Law Suited to Holy Order of Beings.--The Sabbath of the fourth commandment was instituted in Eden. After God had made the world, and created man upon the earth, He made the Sabbath for man. After Adam's sin and fall nothing was taken from the law of God. The principles of the ten commandments existed before the fall, and where of a character suited to the condition of a holy order of beings. After the fall, the principles of those precepts were not changed, but additional precepts were given to meet man in his fallen state (3SG 295). {1BC 1104.3}

Worded to Meet Fallen Intelligences.--The law of Jehovah dating back to creation, was comprised in the two great principles, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." These two great principles embrace the first four commandments, showing the duty of man to God, and the last six, showing the duty of man to his fellowman. The principles were more explicitly stated to man after the fall, and worded to meet the case of fallen intelligences. This was necessary in consequence of the minds of men being blinded by transgression (ST April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.4}

The law of God existed before the creation of man or else Adam could not have sinned. After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were not changed, but were definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the son of God (Ibid., March 14, 1878). {1BC 1104.5}

Precepts Given to Guard Decalogue.--In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon men in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law (Ibid., April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.6}

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