Yesterday I was looking at the message of Christ to the churches in Thyatira and Pergamos in Revelation 2. I noticed that our Lord seems to connect the immoral practices of Jezebel with sorcery. Pagan rites have been known anciently for their immoral content, but here, the Lord warns the church that even among believers there is a decided connection between immoral thoughts and actions and the occult. The one leads to the other. The occult is moral night, so it would be expected that sexual impurity is one of its attributes, and conversely if one partakes of its fruit – impurity – one becomes identified with it’s secret, or ‘deep’ teaching, at first on a subconscious level, but more overtly as one’s capacity for self deception increases with each sinful indulgence.

Another connection that Christ makes is to link immorality and impurity with the overbearing, manipulative doctrine of the Nicolaitans in the church at Pergamos. According to Strong, this word defines a mindset to rule over the laity, not by any virtue other than for the purpose of being the one in authority. This doctrine especially threatens Adventism. But note that Thyatira and Pergamos were under attack from this three fold union – immorality, occultic influence, and a disposition in those who had come under these influences to rule or ruin. We need to be wise here, recognizing that the only way of overcoming our human tendency to entrust our God given duties and privileges to another human being is to overcome in these areas of moral purity. Only then can we expect to close the door on our inherent vulnerability to manipulation. This is my view. What do think forum?

quote:

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2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
2:13 I know thy works and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].
2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;
2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last [to be] more than the first.
2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
2:25 But that which ye have [already] hold fast till I come.
2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

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What was the doctrine of the Nicolaitans? THis can help in identifying what and where it is being used today.

God Bless,
Will

There is a book titled Deceived by the New Age that I am currently reading and one of the key points that is mentioned is the infiltration that happens in the church.
There are people sent to infiltrate the churches who would watch a very very big well known tv evengelist and study his techniques, and his techniques were attractive to the leader of this 'group' since what he said was very much inline with new age. So his techniques were used to preach to un-suspecting sincere truth seekers, but no truth was being preached.
Interesting stuff and worth the read since there seems to be a lot of people wanting to see spiritual manifestations occurr in order to be 'sold' on going to that church. No mention yet of the fornication and eating food belonging to idols, but am curious if such denominations have these types of practices and are under the guise of Christianity?

God Bless,
Will

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Do you think such activities are present in the church or presented as benign in our daily lives?

Fornication is pandemic throughout Christendom including Adventism. The occult is more subtle. Claudia Thompson-Burrows has some good insights on its manifestations in Adventism. Any ground given in adopting occultic thinking whether in the form of New Age mysticism or ancient paganism is eating the food of idols, that is demons.

Thanks Mark for your response, and I will see what type of literature Claudia Thompson-Burrows has published.
One thing that I do find curious and hopefully is not off topic, but what about the more popular holidays that are celebrated i.e. Christmas and Easter?
I know that today it is just a gimmick and the holidays are a time to see family and the like, but I have heard about the paganistic roots of Christmas and Easter and would like to know what your opinions are on these?

God Bless,
Will

My view of Christmas and Easter is that they are good annual reminders of the birth and death of Christ, and we should take advantage of the opportunity to meditate on those events and enter into the Christian spirit of what they celebrate. If we bear in mind that the days chosen to do this are pagan, and that the actual day for Easter is the day after the Passover and the day for Christmas is likely one of the fall feast days we are safe. The Pagan days are false days of worship of course, but there is no law against worshiping God on any of them. The opposite is true. We worship God morning and evening and Sabbath to Sabbath regardless of what Pagan rites fall on these days.

But there is no safety in celebrating Hallowe'en. Participating in Hallowe'en with your children is breaking down the hedge that God has errected for us against the occult, because the focus is demonic.

Claudia hasn't written any books. She's posted some things on New Age within the church here on MSDAOL. She hasn't been that active lately but the way to trace her posts is to find one and then click on the link in the lower left corner of the post box. The most recent post she's made on an unrelated topic is in the church issues forum on one of the two thread on home churches I think.

Why should any Christian, that believes that the papacy is the beast, accept the holy day instituted by the beast? Re: Christmas...

It has no other holy significance other than that given to it by the pope that made it a holy day.

Christmas is like Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is not more holy than any other day, but it is another good opportunity to remember God's providences and mercies. If we can remember what God has done in general on one day of the year because the rest of the community thinks this is a good thing, why can't we also remember the birth of Christ annually. No one knows the exact date of His birth, but it would be a shame not to celebrate it. Lots of good things happen on Christmas. Many children have their first chance to experience the joy of giving and they do it wonderfully. The Jews annually lived in booths made of trees boughs, and in the Christmas tradition, we bring in a tree. Just the smell of the pine or spruce is a blessing and worthwhile, let alone the beauty.

I would hope the majority of people, especially Chritians, realize that the day the world celebrates Xmas is not really the day Jesus was born. I think there is a very good reason why we have not been allowed to know just what day He was born..and for very good reason. Look what the people have done with the 25th day of December. It has become a very good time of the year for sales to go way up. I do belive the majority of the people who celebrate this day really do not spend much time remembering that it is soppose to be in honor of Christ's birth. Mostly it is for giving and receiving presents, partying, etc. If I am not mistaken there are even some schools who can not even have the Xmas play we use to all have...you know the manager and wise men, etc. It might offend some of these other non-Christian people.

However, since it is a time of the year that does bring out some thoughts of Christ to the world I believe that we as Christians should in some way, not like the world, use it for telling others about Christ and what He has done for us and will do for them.

I agree with not having anything to do with Halloween...

Easter....mostly another time of the year for spending money...egg hunt, chocolate bunnies...pagan. We can use the time to tell others about Christ's resurrection.

If God had wanted us to celebrate all these man-made holidays He would have told us how to do it and what day. Since He did not then I do not think we should be giving the wrong example by following the world in the way they do. But I do beieve, especially if you have children, that you learn to do it in a way that will show others the love of God and point them to Christ. We can not just ignore certain holidays like Christmas. Great time to show the which spirit is in you...