God does not force the will or judgment of any. He takes no pleasure in a slavish obedience. He desires that the creatures of His hands shall love Him because He is worthy of love. He would have them obey Him because they have an intelligent appreciation of His wisdom, justice, and benevolence. And all who have a just conception of these qualities will love Him because they are drawn toward Him in admiration of His attributes.(GC 541)

T:To "obey" by doing things that have no basis in our reasoning would be the "slavish obedience" that God takes no pleasure in, wouldn't it?

I'm interested in your answer to this question:

Not necessarily. That quote corresponds to Ed 287.2. But it is rare if we do not pass through the experience of Ed 287.1 first.

If God intended to leave us at Ed 287.1, that would be slavish obedience. But to pass through Ed 287.1 on the way to Ed 287.2 is trust.

When you say sin do you mean Sin or sins? If you mean sins as in losing your temper while driving your car then regretting it then I would say yes one can commit a sin while being saved. Do you think that prior to getting in the car you were saved as long as you had previously asked forgiven since your last sin then the second you lost your temper then your lost until you then ask forgiveness for that sin? Or are you saying one in Christ would never even lose your temper......Cause if your saying that then we are all lost arent we? I dont really agree with the yo yo effect that I'm sensing here.

M: I also believe Christians do not say, "Wow, I can't even remember the last time I sinned." Simultaneously feeling they are like and unlike Jesus is not an indication they are guilty of sinning. People will feel this way throughout eternity. I am familiar with the evolution model of sanctification you describe above. In fact, it's what I believed for the first 13 years of my walk with Jesus.

One day a friend challenged me to prove it from the Bible. I thought it would be easy. However, I was unable to do it. The Bible never describes believers gradually evolving from sinning to not sinning. I was unable to support the idea that believers sin less and less often over time until they cease sinning.

Instead, I found that 1) while abiding in Jesus, 2) while partaking of the divine nature, and 3) while walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man - believers do not and cannot sin. It doesn't mean they are incapable of sinning, it's just that under these circumstances they do not and cannot sin.

To sin, therefore, they must neglect to do the things mentioned above, and then all they can do is sin. To cease sinning they must exercise the gift of repentance, and then God empowers them to resume doing those things that enable them to not sin and to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

Do you see what I mean?

A: MM are you saying that your saved as long as your not currently committing an act of sin and life is a process of saved.. not saved.. saved.. not saved?
In this view I guess we just hope that we are in a saved state at the exact close of probation?

Tom, God required A&E to trust and obey Him before they were familiar with His character. Did that make Him a slave driver?

PS - I have asked you on several occasions if you have children and you have refused every time to answer. I take it the answer is - No. It is significant that you have never raised children, especially as it applies to your opinion about raising children.