I think all of it.



I think these ideas are often misunderstood. If "believing God's word" were understood to mean, "believing the Good News," then that would work, as well as the idea of "truly believing God's love for us," as these are really two ways of saying the same thing. I would say the same thing about the phrase, "obeying God's command," since His command is to "believe in Him whom He has sent." But people often think of "obeying God's command" as something we do, as opposed to Someone in whom we believe.



I don't think so. That is, it seems to me that there's just three items here, and nothing more to it than that. Someone could just as easily say there's a link between the three-step path to sin and God's triune nature, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

This is just my gut reaction. If you could develop the link into something concrete, I'd be interested in seeing this.

Otoh, while I'm not seeing this link, I think the idea of the three-step path itself is right on target! Also your idea in the other direction (three step path to sin).

I'd express it this way myself. We know the whole Great Controversy started over God's character. By misrepresenting God's character, Satan was able to deceive angels and men, and thus lead them into sin. We have:

a.Misapprehending God's character
b.Distrusting God.
c.Acts of disobedience (sin)

So what's the solution?

a.Understanding God's character.
b.Believing in Christ.
c.Acts of obedience.

While what you say is true, I don't think that's all there is to it. Re: A&E, we can't say that believing the Good News (if it even existed then) and believing in Jesus were all they were dealing with.

God literally said something: Eat that fruit and you will die. A&E literally had to believe those words were true. It goes to the fundamental belief that God does not lie.

And God literally gave a command: Don't eat that fruit. A&E literally had to obey that command, if they wanted to stay out of trouble. It goes to the fundamental belief that God has the authority to tell us what to do.

As for us today, I think believing and following God's word are still important. Even if I believed that God loves me, and I love Him back, it behooves me to learn what He said, believe them, and obey any instructions He may give. It is not safe to take the position that some have: God loves me, I love God, I'm going to do whatever pops into my head.

I also successfully resisted the urge to link it to Moe, Larry, and Curly.


I'll post it later. I wanted to see first if others had any ideas, and see if anyone makes the same link I thought of. If someone else also sees it, there's a better likelihood that I'm not just imagining things.

I could have gone that way too, but I would have lost the direct application of the PP quote, and the alliteration. I even considered adding the subtitle of "Dissing the Devil."

Anything that helps people remember the truth is a good thing.

The Good News is "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father!" That existed, but they didn't believe it. They believed instead the serpents misrepresentations of God's character; God was a liar, God didn't have their best interests in heart. It was believing these untruths that led to Adam and Eve's disobedience. *This is the fundamenatal issue*. Not the disobedience itself, but that which led to the disobedience.

From the DA quote:



How did Satan seek to gain control? By misrepresenting God. This is the fundamental problem, the root of the issue. The disobedience was the fruit.



Which has to do with God's character. Adam and Eve believed that God was lying, or at least possibly lying, and they distrusted Him, leading to their disobedience.



This isn't the fundamental issue. The fundamental problem is not that God said one thing and they acted contrary to what He said. The fundamental issue is that they didn't believe God to be good or trustworthy.

God desires that we have an intelligent appreciation of His character, and that we obey Him because we are convinced that His principles are right. Not because He says so, but because we ourselves believe His ways are right and true. He doesn't desire the obedience of a robot, where He says, "do this," and the robot does it.



Certainly this is important, but not for reasons of authority. It's not like the Army, where someone who is in command says something, and the underling does it because he is outranked.



This is because His ways are right and true. The principles He espouses are the principles of self-sacrificing love, which are the principles of life.

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There is a new thread to address the issue of how obedience and understanding relate. Click here: Is it possible to obey God before understanding His reasons for giving the command?

We'll continue the discussion there. Now,
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I thought some of my favorite EGW quotes on love could be useful:

"The conditions of eternal life, under grace, are just what they were in Eden--perfect righteousness, harmony with God, perfect conformity to the principles of His law. ... God has made provision that we may become like unto Him, and He will accomplish this for all who do not interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace. ... By the revelation of the attractive loveliness of Christ, by the knowledge of His love expressed to us while we were yet sinners, the stubborn heart is melted and subdued, and the sinner is transformed and becomes a child of heaven. God does not employ compulsory measures; love is the agent which He uses to expel sin from the heart. By it He changes pride into humility, and enmity and unbelief into love and faith." {MB 76, 77}

"Every soul saved will be saved through love, which begins with God. True conversion is a change from selfishness to sanctified affection for God and for one another." {1SM 115.1}

Yielding to temptation begins in permitting the mind to waver, to be inconstant in your trust in God. If we do not choose to give ourselves fully to God then we are in darkness. When we make any reserve we are leaving open a door through which Satan can enter to lead us astray by his temptations. He knows that if he can obscure our vision, so that the eye of faith cannot see God, there will be no barrier against sin. {MB 92.1}

They saw Jesus, and they ran away from Him! Anyway, you're talking about the time after they had already been deceived; I'm talking about the time before that. You're talking about cure; I'm talking about prevention.


Think about that. That's the thought that led to me think of the link to man's threefold nature.


But that's only part of it. They could have thought that God simply didn't know what He was talking about. It's not just a matter of trusting God's goodness, but also His competence.


I disagree with you here, and we'll discuss it more in the other thread where we started it (if I can find it again). You are treating God as your equal, as if you could stand in judgment of His words and decide for yourself if you should or should not follow. He gave 10 Commandments, not 10 Explanations.

When I deal with my kids, I want them to obey because they see the wisdom in my commands. But that sometimes requires more maturity than they currently have. In the meantime, I want them to obey what I said, even if they don't understand why I said it. If they don't, they might not survive long enough to gain the needed maturity. So I want them to trust that I want what's best for them, and I know what I'm doing, even if they don't.

That's how it is with God. If I was as wise as Him, maybe the two of us can sit around and dissect His commands and decide if I concur. But I'm not. So, I obey, with a child-like trust that He wants what's best for me, and He knows what He's doing, even if I don't.


If you don't understand the rationale for one of God's commands, or maybe even don't know that God commanded it, do you think there will be negative consequences for doing the opposite of God's will?


Are these principles still in effect if I don't understand why? IOW, is going against God's will inherently hurtful?

I've quoted this one many times. This whole thing is a nice quote. She's commenting on "Be ye therefore perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The cure is the same as the prevention: Believing the truth about God.



You'll have to spell this out for me.



This would also has to do with His character, although I think it's unlikely they would think God to be incompetent. After all, He created them.



Yes, we seem to disagree here. First of all, I am not treating God as my equal; I perceive Him to be as you do. I am guessing for you to say this that you perceive desiring to understand why a certain thing is desired is equivalent to treating someone else as equal(?) That is, I'm a bit perplexed as to why you would think I'm treating God as an equal because I assert that He doesn't desire robotic obedience.

I understand with a young child that you give a command ("Don't cross the street without me!") because they don't understand the danger involved, but I can't think of a counterpart in our case. We are not children, but have reached the age of accountability. What would be an example of something God wants us to do without understanding why?



I think this question is based on a false premise, which is that it's possible to do God's will without understanding the why involved. I don't think it's God's will that He says, "Jump!" and we say, "How high?" That's the Army. God's kingdom is moral. It's not based of God's authority, but on His character. It's not run by the principles of force, but on the basis of love, and love must be freely given, and must be based on understanding.



If God's will is that you understand His principles, it's not possible to do His will without understanding why. Or, to put it another way, a fundamental part of His principles is that the why be understood.