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Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION #104782
11/18/08 03:24 AM
11/18/08 03:24 AM
asygo  Offline OP
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California, USA
Here is the link to this week's study and discussion:

http://ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/08d/less08nkjv.html


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: asygo] #104801
11/18/08 03:12 PM
11/18/08 03:12 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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E. Oregon, USA
I forgot this topic was in the Quarterly!...

Before raising perhaps the obvious contentious issue, there's this on Sunday's section
Quote:
For the purpose of the atonement it was indispensable to have God in human flesh, because only God could save us.
This is a wonderful truth, but a thought comes to mind: I've been taught several times over the last two decades that the Son of God didn't die but the Son of man did because divinity can't die. How does God save us through Jesus if God's Son didn't actually die?

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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: Colin] #104804
11/18/08 03:26 PM
11/18/08 03:26 PM
asygo  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
Moreover, the sacrifice needed to be of greater value than Adam BEFORE his fall.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: asygo] #104807
11/18/08 03:54 PM
11/18/08 03:54 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
We know that Christ existed prior to the Incarnation. As far as I know, I don't think anybody here is disputing this.

Relative to the Incarnation, in what form and under what name or title did Christ exist prior to the Incarnation?

Also, how did the Incarnation take place?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: asygo] #104808
11/18/08 04:16 PM
11/18/08 04:16 PM
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Colin  Offline
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E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Moreover, the sacrifice needed to be of greater value than Adam BEFORE his fall.
Yes, some of us still believe Jesus lay down his divine life for our atonement, eh. A sacrifice worthy of the law whose penalty was being suffered.

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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: Daryl] #104809
11/18/08 04:42 PM
11/18/08 04:42 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
We know that Christ existed prior to the Incarnation. As far as I know, I don't think anybody here is disputing this.

Relative to the Incarnation, in what form and under what name or title did Christ exist prior to the Incarnation?

Also, how did the Incarnation take place?
We Adventists still try to think that in his pre-existence Christ looked much like us, since he appeared to Abraham as a man and we are made in his image, which he shares with his Father - a physical and character resemblance. As for name or title, Word, Wisdom, and Son are all well known: the titles in Isaiah 9:6 are Messianic titles - including quite likely everlasting Father of the human race, as the Second Adam.

Name is a significant word, since there is thinking today that even Father, Son & Holy Spirit are titles of adopted roles which are identities - just roles for the Bible's salvation project. Such allows for the potential of interchangeable titles/roles, as has been mentioned in week of prayer and Sabbath School books. Instead of adopted roles many Adventists still hold to the identities of Father, Son and Holy Spirit which is also their names.

How did the incarnation take place?! I thought that's an unknown?!! Doesn't it just say that God's Spirit did it?

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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: Colin] #104815
11/18/08 05:44 PM
11/18/08 05:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Southwest USA
Colin, Jesus did indeed die. He did not pretend to die. Tom posted a SOP quote awhile ago which said if Jesus had failed on the cross He would have remained in the tomb. True, divinity did not die, but Jesus was/is a combination of divinity and humanity. Thus, He depends on His humanity to live among us in His divinity.

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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: Mountain Man] #104816
11/18/08 05:49 PM
11/18/08 05:49 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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This isn't the quote Tom posted, but it's nice one:

Jesus said to Mary, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father." When He closed His eyes in death upon the cross, the soul of Christ did not go at once to heaven, as many believe, or how could His words be true--"I am not yet ascended to my Father"? The spirit of Jesus slept in the tomb with His body, and did not wing its way to heaven, there to maintain a separate existence, and to look down upon the mourning disciples embalming the body from which it had taken flight. All that comprised the life and intelligence of Jesus remained with His body in the sepulcher; and when He came forth it was as a whole being; He did not have to summon His spirit from heaven. He had power to lay down His life and to take it up again (3SP 203, 204). {5BC 1150.6}

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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: Mountain Man] #104821
11/18/08 06:48 PM
11/18/08 06:48 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
Here's another quote:
Quote:
Humanity died: divinity did not die. {YI, August 4, 1898 par. 1}


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #8 - Born of a Woman—Atonement and the INCARNATION [Re: asygo] #104823
11/18/08 07:06 PM
11/18/08 07:06 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
Arnold,

Can't get much clearer than that quote, which tells us very clearly that "divinity did not die." thumbsup


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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