Just a quickie...


There is no problem with wanting to understand. In fact, there would be a problem with not wanting to understand.

But requiring understanding BEFORE rendering obedience is a problem. That would be treating God as an equal, because you are putting yourself as the final arbiter of what should or should not be done.

I don't think obedience is possible without understanding, so I wouldn't view this as a "requirement," in terms of, "I refuse to do this unless I understand" but it's a requirement in terms of God "requires" that we understand before we can obey; or, to put it another way, obedience without understanding is not something desire by God, nor of interest to Him, because He doesn't care for slavish, or robotic, obedience.

Obedience based on faith, hope, and charity, rather than on understanding, is beautiful - not robotic.

Does anyone have an example of a situation where obedience is rendered in spite of not knowing why it is required?

What about the fact if A&E had not sinned God could have ended the GC favorably without Jesus having to die on the cross?

"... faith in God's love for us is THE shield against sin." Yes, but only if it is faith that works by love and purifies the soul. However, I am more inclined to believe the shield against backsliding is abiding in Jesus. "He that abideth in him sinneth not." (1 John 3:6)

Walking in the Spirit and partaking of the divine nature are also necessary to avoid backsliding and for maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16) "Be partakers of the divine nature . . . for if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." (2 Peter 1:4, 8, 9)


A&E believed God loved them but it didn't prevent them from eating the forbidden fruit. So belief without corresponding works is not enough to prevent sin. To believe in Jesus is to behave like Jesus. "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also." (John 14:12)

Regarding a solution to the sin problem. Believing God loves us does nothing to atone for past sins. It does not in the least satisfy the just and loving demands of law and justice (so far as past sins are concerned). Death must come in consequence of sin. The integrity of the law must be upheld and preserved.

"The Lord requires at this time just what He required of Adam in Eden--perfect obedience to the law of God. We must have righteousness without a flaw, without a blemish. God gave His Son to die for the world, but He did not die to repeal the law which was holy and just and good. The sacrifice of Christ on Calvary is an unanswerable argument showing the immutability of the law. Its penalty was felt by the Son of God in behalf of guilty man, that through His merits the sinner might obtain the virtue of His spotless character by faith in His name. {FW 89.3}


No one will be saved without good words and works. Therefore, belief and behavior are essential to ones salvation. "While we are to be in harmony with God's law, we are not saved by the works of the law, yet we cannot be saved without obedience. The law is the standard by which character is measured. But we cannot possibly keep the commandments of God without the regenerating grace of Christ. Jesus alone can cleanse us from all sin. He does not save us by law, neither will He save us in disobedience to law. {FW 95.3}


Seems to me the path to sin involves one step, namely, neglecting to abide in Jesus. Of course, this applies to born again believers who are abiding in Jesus. Otherwise, people who have not experienced the miracle of rebirth they sin by default. They cannot not sin. No step needs to be taken to sin. They sin naturally and instinctively. Thus, rebirth and abiding in Jesus is everything. It is the end all (cease from sin), be all (without fault, blameless).

"The converted student has broken the chain which bound him to the service of sin, and has placed himself in the right relation to God. His name is enrolled in the Lamb's book of life. He is under solemn obligation to renounce evil, and come under the jurisdiction of God. Through earnest prayer he is to cleave to Christ. To neglect this, to refuse his service, is to forfeit the favor of the Great Teacher, and to become the sport of Satan's wiles. {FE 514.1}

"The impressions of the Holy Spirit if disregarded today, will not be as strong tomorrow. The heart becomes less impressible, and lapses into a perilous unconsciousness of the shortness of life, and of the great eternity beyond. Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have been in error, but from the fact that we have neglected heaven-sent opportunities for learning what is truth. {DA 489.5}

Is it possible to obey God before understanding His reasons for giving the command? is now open. Let's continue this topic there.

Okay. But please address #104674 and #104675 (my last two posts on this thread). Thank you.

I already answered #104674 in my post #104444.

I will definitely come back to the other one, since that's what I wanted to investigate.

While all of those things you mentioned are true, they can be considered the inevitable result, and can only result from, having faith in God's love to us.

For example, if I don't believe that God loves me, why would I abide in Him? That's like living with a spouse who doesn't love you. But if I know He loves me, the natural response is to love Him back, and all the other things you mentioned.

Then, if you have faith in God's love, as the SOP says, "you are secure."

BTW, faith that doesn't work by love or purify the soul is not really faith.

They did not believe God's love. Read this:
As you said, "To believe in Jesus is to behave like Jesus." If they really believed, they would have obeyed. But they didn't, so they didn't.