An unwise choice would be not taking all relevant factors into consideration when making the decision. Adam knew the relevant factors, took them into consideration, then ignored them. He rebelled.


His reason for eating the fruit was to avoid being separated from Eve, in exchange for being separated from God. It was idolatry. And having known who the true God was, and putting Eve on the throne instead, that's rebellious - treason.


No, I don't think so. Willful sins are rebellious. There are unknown and unwillful sins; those are not rebellious. However, they are still sin, just not as toxic as the other kind.

But Adam made his choice to share Eve's fate hoping God would not let them die before he sinned. His response to the problem after he sinned is to be expected.

Actually I think his response to the problem after he sinned was very unexpected. Before he sinned, he was willing to do anything for Eve's sake, even die (which would be the second death). However, after sinning, when God asked what happened, he blamed Eve. Sin had changed him.

Yes, that's my point. What Adam did after he sinned is not surprising to us because we understand the effects of sinning. Perhaps Adam's response was surprising to himself.

But what Adam thought and felt before he sinned, while sinless, was the response of a sinless being. His logic was based on the reasoning of a sinless being. Again, as a sinless being he resolves to share Eve's fate hoping God would forgive them and not inflict the penalty of sin - eternal death.

Turns out he was right. God did forgive them and did not inflict the death penalty upon them. However, Adam did not guess that it would involve the death of Jesus. This shocked and horrified him, even in his sinful state.

What does everybody think?

I think God warned Adam and Eve ate if they ate of the true, they would be doomed to death, and that's what happened. I think it's a mistake to look at the penalty for sin as something arbitrary, which God inflicts or doesn't inflict upon the transgressor. Rather sin brings about inevitable chain of consequences, resulting in death. In order to save Adam and Eve from death, it was necessary for them to be saved from sin, and so the Plan of Salvation was effected.

Also important to bear in mind is that the key issue is the character of God. It was by misrepresenting God's character that he was able to deceive man and lead him into rebellion. Only by this deception being unveiled could man be brought back to God.

Even if man can be undeceived and brought back to God there is still the matter of past sins. Justice demands that death come in consequence of sin.

Also, God did not warn A&E that they would be doomed to die if they ate the forbidden fruit. Instead, He plainly said they would die in the day they disobeyed.

Seems to me I recall you writing somewhere, don't remember where, that the glory of God is what causes the wicked to suffer and die at the end of time. Did I misunderstand you? If not, then how do you reconcile it with your idea that sin is what causes people to die?

You assert this, but don't support it. I don't think you've even attempted to support this from Scripture. If you would wish to try on that basis, I would be happy to have a discussion with you based on Scripture. Present some evidence that Scripture teaches that justice demands that death is necessary in order for God to be able to forgive past sins. This whole concept was foreign to the Jewish mind. It has nothing to do with how they conceived of justice.

If you are thinking of EGW statements, I would again bring up the case of Lucifer. God offered, over and over again, to pardon him without death having occurred.



The warning given to Adam and Eve that "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" did not imply that they were to die on the very day when they partook of the forbidden fruit. That very day they would be doomed to death.



I addressed this just yesterday in another thread, so won't repeat it here.

Does God punish commandment breakers?

Tom, the Jews were required to confess their sins upon the head of a subsstitutional sacrifice and then kill it. Pardon could be secured in no other way. God could not grant pardon without the death of a substitute. Death was required to grant and receive the benefits of forgiveness.