These ideas are indeed farther along than many realize.

I once met a guy who had newsletters written by a woman who believed she was in psychic contact with a "galactic fleet general", who's supposedly from the Pleiades star system....who talked about all sorts of things that would come upon the earth. (One great cosmic cataclysm in particular was supposed to happen on Earth in the mid-90's, but of course it didn't.) He and his pals were going to buy up land in the Smoky Mountains, for the purpose of erecting a landing/greeting area for the UFOs when they arrived. And he was quite serious.

On another front, the United Nations has invited "channelers" of the entity "Kryon" (sounds like a house paint, doesn't it) to speak before the U.N.'s "Society of Enlightenment and Transformation". World government leaders are serious about this stuff. Not much of this gets out to the mainstream media, of course.

The devil appears in many guises, huh.

Unbelieveable that the UN actually is channeling spirits?!!
The main focus is to undermine the whole Christian faith and belief in God and that He sent His only begotten Son to die for us who is now alive. This is the Great Controversy in so many words.
The reason for this are many, but I know that alot of people don't understand how God can let all this evil happen, and some of them feel that God has let them down somehow. (That's from what I have heard)
Alot of it (New Age stuff) can be traced back to ancient civilizations so it's not so 'New', but a rehashed form of Spiritualism.
When I was younger there was a seminar at a local SDA church and after my dad invited me on numerous occassions I decided to go. I took amny many notes that evening which covered things such as the 'Illuminatti' and how it started and how the goal was to actually bring satan to power in so many words. Seeing that major 'powers' and leaders of nations have a vested interest in having someone rule the world and are looking forward to such an event (dawning of the new age) sounds very surreal and almost unbelieveable, but it is consistent with what is being discussed in this thread.
Anyways I'm rambling now, but we do live in interesting times indeed. Let us all be firmly rooted in the Word of God, our Rock and our Salvation!
God Bless,
Will

Will,

Reading back thru that last thing I posted, it looks like it might need to be clarified -- "has invited" was meant to say they have done it in the past, already a done deed. Those events took place in the mid-late 1990's. Far as I can tell, the U.N.'s Society for Enlightenment and Transformation (SEAT) has been disbanded; but the fact remains that there have been New Age channeling events at the U.N.

(Old-fashioned spirit seances under a new name.)

Interesting John. I have a few comments more on this new scientific interest in the occult.

The modern effort to use a scientific approach to the occult has several implications. I mentioned above that one of them is that science tends to remove the mysticism and fear that historically has deterred people from tampering with the occult. When science cloaks the para-normal in ‘other dimensional’ language, that natural barrier and aversion that is built into the human psyche is largely removed.

Another effect the scientific approach brings to any area of enquiry is that it creates a better defined, systematized body of knowledge. This is possibly the greatest weakness of all occultic doctrine. The occult is Babylon or confusion. It is a huge mishmash of contradictory, vague, mysterious knowledge. The scientific approach will no doubt help to organize it’s teachings into something much more manageable. The mystery and confusion will continue, but it will be much better systematized and catalogued so that minds that are inclined in that direction will be able to more quickly find the deception that is most suited to their tastes, personality and weaknesses.

A related effect to the first one mentioned is that the scientific approach is perhaps the most effective mask of what is actually behind the occult – evil spirits. False science takes the phenomena of the supernatural and removes it from its true context - that of the great controversy. The best modern example we have of what takes place when a thoroughly scientific approach is combined with the occult is Nazi Germany.

I hope someone can help me here. I remember hearing years ago from a reliable source that Hitler was consistently guided in every significant military decision except for one by a voice that was audible to him. To most people even today, he is the clearest modern embodiment of evil, and this in my view is an accurate picture of him. Like most Germans (apparently he was Austrian, the son of an Austrian woman of ill repute, but Austrians have the same ancestry) he was very scientific in his approach. Hitler’s life illustrates that the tendency of the scientific occult then and now is to foster the deception that the wisdom it offers is innate. Hitler viewed his opinions as superior and the German people as superior. He routinely received the worship of the German people. He accepted the deception that he was a god, and reveled in it.

I believe that in Revelation 13, the Bible is telling us that we are going to find a similar phenomena towards the end. 666 is said to be a human number. It’s likely the number of a god-man and possibly also of the institution(s) and religio-political system that supports him or her.

Below is a quote from Habakkuk that describes the judgment of God on the Chaldeans, the race who’s capital was Babylon. It refers to the them historically, but verse 2:3 applies the vision especially to the Babylon of Revelation 17 and to the appointed time of the end. What I wanted to point out is the self-deception of both literal and symbolic Babylon in ascribing glory to herself and attributing her power over the nations to her own innate strength. This appears to me to be the result of occultic influences and thinking.

Notice where Babylon crosses the line of God’s forbearance in verse 1:11. Whereas prior military victories were ruthless and arrogant, Babylon at first is not so deceived as to think that her power originates within herself. But at some point, Babylon does come to believe this, similar to deception that overtook Hitler and the people of Germany. It is at this point I believe that the number 666 especially applies to her – at verse 1:11 where she becomes fully deceived in regard to her true condition and worships herself, saying in her heart: “A Queen I sit . . .”

quote:

---

1:6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, [that] bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places [that are] not theirs.
1:7 They [are] terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
. . . .
1:10 And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.
1:11 Then shall [his] mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, [imputing] this his power unto his god.
. . . .
1:15 They take up all of them with the angle, they catch them in their net, and gather them in their drag: therefore they rejoice and are glad.
1:16 Therefore they sacrifice unto their net, and burn incense unto their drag; because by them their portion [is] fat, and their meat plenteous.
1:17 Shall they therefore empty their net, and not spare continually to slay the nations?

2:1 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make [it] plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
2:3 For the vision [is] yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
2:4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
. . .
2:8 Because thou hast spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil thee; because of men's blood, and [for] the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein. . . .
2:12 Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city by iniquity!
2:13 Behold, [is it] not of the LORD of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity?
2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

---

Daniel 11 has a similar description to Habakkuk’s of the self-deception of Babylon . As in Habbakuk, the King of the North changes his worship from the God of his father’s to himself and to the ‘god of forces.’ The forces that the King of the North worships are both his own military strength, and also the ‘cosmic’ forces that he comes to think are his own superior powers. In this passage, the same end-time power is being described I believe, as in Habakkuk, the Babylon of Revelation 17.

That would be consistent with other OT scripture that in several places refers to the Babylonians as the nation from the north that God would use to punish the nations of the ancient world including Judah, Benjamin and the city of Jerusalem. But because Babylon herself became drunk with pride, she was also punished.

quote:

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11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

---

That completes what I wanted to share on this topic. I hope others will have comments, questions, objections etc., but find it worth considering. It is not central to the plan of salvation, but I think God wants us to have a clearer understanding of these things as we approach the end.

Daryl, when I started this thread, I wasn't planning to go in the direction that I did. The idea of the King of the North being the same as Babylon of Revelation 17 could be viewed as 'new light', so it would probably be better to put this topic in the New Light forum. What do you think?