I can understand your being frustrated, but let's keep the tone of the conversation friendly, OK?



On the one hand, you say that "intelligent appreciation" is a good thing, even emphasizing the point, but on the other hand you write, "I would rather trust the God of heaven." This implies you perceive a tension between the two, that trusting in the God of heaven is better than intelligent appreciation. But if God desires intelligent appreciation, wouldn't it be the case that intelligent appreciation would be the fruit of trusting Him?



If the instructions I read were something I didn't discern an acceptable rationale, there would have to be a reason I did not deem it acceptable. The two main criteria I would have would be the law of God, and the life and teachings of Christ. So there's a good chance I would disregard it, if I saw some disharmony there.

Here's a hypothetical question we may consider: If a voice told you to kill someone, would you do it?

A point I've been dwelling on is that God does not desire a slavish obedience. What is a slavish obedience? Isn't it the obedience of a slave, who does something simply because his master says, "do!"? He doesn't question, or even think, about they why; he just does what he's told.

I hear Jesus say that we are "not servants, but friends,"



This seems to me to be diametrically opposed to a slavish disobedience. What's the difference between a slavish disobedience and the obedience of a friend? It seems to me it's that a slave just does, whereas a friend is given a confidence.

You've mentioned that you see Ed. 278.1 as a temporary situation, on the way to Ed. 278.2. So may I infer from this is that the only thing you are disagreeing with me is regarding 278.1? Or, to phrase this question another way, let's say I agreed with you regarding Ed. 278.1, would you then be in agreement with me?

Tom, I agree with the point Arnold made regarding making our ability to grasp and comprehend why God commands us to obey Him the criteria of rendering obedience. It is better to obey than to delay. It is better to obey now and to ask questions later.

I like that.

This is assuming we can obey without understanding. It seems unlikely to me this is even possible. For example, consider the commandment "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." How can this be kept without understanding?

While understanding its full meaning may take a while, one can immediately obey what is clearly written: don't work on the Sabbath, don't have people work for you on the Sabbath, etc. Not understanding the fine details is no excuse to disregard the obvious.

Let's look at another commandment: Thou shalt not kill. Jesus said that if you hate your brother, you have killed him. The SOP tells us that killing oneself slowly by unhealthy habits constitutes breaking that command. Many people, including SDAs, do not understand those fine details. Does that mean that one who doesn't really know all that the law entails should feel free to whack his annoying neighbor, since he doesn't really understand that law anyway?

In my view, the answer is a definite No. You might not understand all there is to understand, but you can do what you know. So if God tells you not to eat a certain fruit, stay away from it even if you don't understand why. If you obey, you may survive long enough to find out why.

Take the commandment against idols. A few weeks after God gave that one, the Israelites were bowing down to a golden calf. Can we say that the Israelites fully understood the command against idolatry? I've been thinking about that commandment for years, and I'm pretty sure I still don't fully understand it; I doubt the Israelites, fresh out of slavery, had much of an idea after a few weeks. However, God still required them to obey, and when they broke its obvious requirement, they got in big trouble.

So, back to the 4th commandment, if God says to keep the Sabbath day, we should trust that He knows what He's talking about, and He's looking out for our best interests, and do what He says to the best of our ability and knowledge. Disregarding His plain command will be painful for you, because if it wasn't, He wouldn't have commanded what He did. You just have to trust Him if you lack understanding.

You wrote this earlier:



You write that your father, and other's are "too proud to think that God can require their obedience before He requires their understanding." because they feel every day is as holy as any other. What would you have them to do? Keep the Sabbath, even though they have no conviction it is a holy day? Why would they do this? Why would this please God?



Wouldn't it be better to gain understanding?



If God takes no pleasure in a slavish obedience, why would He want us to obey without understanding? Or, to ask another question, what would it say about God to suggest that He would want us to do what He says without caring if we understand why?

Jesus said that we were no longer servants, but friends, because He communicated to us all that He had received from His Father. Doesn't this suggest that God wants us to cooperate with Him from a foundation of understanding?

Answer this first: Did God just command that on a whim, like some kind of arbitrary requirement? Or did He have a good reason to do it?

Your questions seem to imply that disregarding what God commanded is not inherently bad, as if God arbitrarily imposes bad consequences for going against His stated instructions.

Gaining understanding is surely better. But I do not hold the view that I can understand everything God has in mind. Like Paul, I often see that His ways are past finding out.

You seem to see only two extreme options: we understand everything, or God doesn't care if we understand anything. You are missing a ginormous area in between. That's where most of us live.

Jesus also said that God is our Father. And as any father will tell you, even the best children are, obviously, still children. When they ask "why" (and they do that a lot), you want to help them understand, but there are times when the situation is beyond their capacity to understand. For such cases, for their own safety and well-being, they need to trust that Daddy knows best, even if they don't understand. It's basic father stuff.

As for being friends, when my friends seek my help, they trust that my advice to them is for their good. They don't need (and often don't want) me to go into the details of electromagnetic theory and Newton's laws of motion before they will follow my advice to defrag their drives to improve computer performance. Our relationship as friends gives them peace of mind, even without asking why, because they trust me.

Those who don't trust me always ask lots of questions before obeying. And when the math gets too difficult and they can't handle it anymore, they stop listening to the explanation. And the tell-tale sign that they don't trust me? They don't follow my instructions.

Yes, God wants a foundation of understanding. But more fundamental than that, God wants a foundation of faith. Grace comes through faith, not understanding. Even those who are too dumb to understand, and I fall into this category for many things, can still partake of God's grace through faith.

Agreed. The foundation of faith is a right concept of God's character.



God desires an obedience based on a right conception of His character, which is the foundation of faith. This agrees with the idea that He does not desire a slavish obedience, one which is not based on understanding.