Teresaq, if God took a break, even for a nanosecond, I suppose the entire Universe would simply disappear. What do you think?

pretty much!

I find this a very disturbing comment.

If God can arbitrarily (or for whatever "good" reason you insert here) change His "fixed laws" at any time, would you also say He can change His moral laws too?






Why does it seem to me that these two statements are contradictory? Though it could be that you made the second as being what you don't believe. However what about the following?

Kland, yes, God was forced to reword the law to meet man in His fallen state. And, Jesus had to change to save mankind. He is no longer only God. He is now the God-man. New laws apply. Things changed radically for Him. Listen:


You asked, "Why does it seem to me that these two statements are contradictory?" The truth is God will never "take a break" therefore the Universe will never vanish into nothingness (assuming that's what would happen if He did; the fact is, though, we have no way of knowing for sure what would happen).

Remember, God spoke everything into existence out of nothing. Things just appeared out of nowhere in an instant of time. It makes sense, therefore, to assume things would disappear just as suddenly if God ceased doing whatever it is He does to keep things in order. The laws of entropy as we know them would not apply. That is, it wouldn't take zillions of years for everything to vanish and cease to be. Besides, the laws of entropy do not say things would would vanish and cease to exist.

So, exchange my entropy with your cease to exist idea.

If God should cease to do whatever it was that prevented the earth from being flooded, it would suddenly become flooded.

not now. if there was water in the earth before but now there is fire-which we know there is-then the earth would be engulfed in flames, or cease to exist.

Excellent point. MM said what God will do at the second death is similar to what God did at the Flood. My comment referred not to the current times, but what happened at the flood. Which brings up support for MM's assertion that things are different. In a way, anyway. And that is by removing the flood waters for Noah, He created a different type of entropy. This is not a case of God changing His physical or moral laws, but providing a lower state for the waters to exist. The result was not as good as He originally created as now there are greater amounts of seas/oceans. Ellen White talks about that part.

Now, by letting go, the waters are already at their lowest point so nothing happens. However, now comes the question is if He is holding back the fires, what happens if He lets go?

this is an interesting discussion in itself. (i hope my mode of writing is getting easier on the eyes, my brother/sister. :))

He has to be holding back the fires, since egw explains somewhere the causes of earthquakes and volcanos. the flood did a job on the earth and only by the grace of God is there any security that the whole earth doesnt just explode, or something similar.

What you're talking about is something I've thought about, in regards to the destruction by fire and water. The earth's crust is very, very thin. So it wouldn't take much for it to give way to forces underneath, whether water or fire. One can easily imagine a similar mechanism for both the destruction by fire at the end and the flood previously.

I hadn't thought of the entity angle before. That's an interesting thought.

GC Pg. 35-37:

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for
themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction
that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed
them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest
which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O
Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by
thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often
represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct
decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to
conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love
and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be
withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them
according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the
destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's
vindictive power over those who yield to his control.

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the
peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining
power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully
under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful
have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and
long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power
of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine
forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand
toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against
transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to
themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of
light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every
passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is
a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit
of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the
sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil
passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and
enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful
and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers
of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy.
Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's
hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall
upon the guilty.

The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of
judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of
which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the
fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world
that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law.
Dark are the records of human misery that earth has
witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens,
and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have
been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a
scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future.
The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults,
conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with
confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),--
what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when
the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn
from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst
of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then
behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule.
...
Like Israel of old the wicked destroy themselves;
they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed
themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have
become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His
glory is to them a consuming fire.


PP Pg. 428, 429:

After bringing trouble upon
themselves, making their lot altogether harder than God designed,
they charged all their misfortunes upon Him. Thus they cherished
bitter thoughts concerning His dealings with them, and finally
they became discontented with everything. Egypt looked brighter
and more desirable than liberty and the land to which God was
leading them.

As the Israelites indulged the spirit of discontent, they were
disposed to find fault even with their blessings. "And the people
spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye
brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there
is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this
light bread."

Moses faithfully set before the people their great sin. It was
God's power alone that had preserved them in "that great and
terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions,
and drought, where there was no water." Deuteronomy 8:15.
Every day of their travels they had been kept by a miracle of
divine mercy. In all the way of God's leading they had found
water to refresh the thirsty, bread from heaven to satisfy their
hunger, and peace and safety under the shadowy cloud by day
and the pillar of fire by night. Angels had ministered to them
as they climbed the rocky heights or threaded the rugged paths
of the wilderness. Notwithstanding the hardships they had
endured, there was not a feeble one in all their ranks. Their feet
had not swollen in their long journeys, neither had their clothes
grown old. God had subdued before them the fierce beasts of
prey and the venomous reptiles of the forest and the desert. If
with all these tokens of His love the people still continued to
complain, the Lord would withdraw His protection until they
should be led to appreciate His merciful care, and return to Him
with repentance and humiliation.

Because they had been shielded by divine power they had not
realized the countless dangers by which they were continually
surrounded. In their ingratitude and unbelief they had anticipated
death, and now the Lord permitted death to come upon
them. The poisonous serpents that infested the wilderness were
called fiery serpents, on account of the terrible effects produced
by their sting, it causing violent inflammation and speedy death.
As the protecting hand of God was removed from Israel, great
numbers of the people were attacked by these venomous
creatures.