Wasn’t it obvious? And isn't it obvious I'm not someone who believes such a thing?


Which “heading” or “representative sin” would not get in the way of receiving Jesus? Please refer to the SOP quote I posted above for examples.


Rebirth happens when people crucify their old man and Jesus implants within them the righteous fruits and attributes of God’s character. At this point they begin abiding in Jesus, partaking of the divine nature. Of course they must consciously choose moment by moment to abide in Jesus; otherwise, they instinctively revert back to the resurrected mind of the old man. Repentance restores the relationship sin severs.

I believe people can and do experience rebirth before they learn how to obey and observe everything Jesus commanded. In such cases they are born again abiding in Jesus while still ignorantly cultivating some of the same sins of ignorance they committed prior to rebirth. I also happen to believe that properly indoctrinated people are born again abiding in Jesus without any of the sins they committed ignorantly or knowingly prior to rebirth.


Nice one, Tom. I’ll rephrase the question:

Do you know of any inspired quotes that describe people who, before probation closes, have fully and completely overcome sin, who successfully reign in the clamorings of their sinful flesh, and who daily grow in grace and mature in the righteous fruits and attributes of God character?

I didn't see a quote above. In general, I would say the heading is immaterial. God reveals the sins that a person needs to confess in order to be able to accept Christ. Consider the publican. He was evidently convicted about something. He asked for mercy, and God gave it to him. Jesus said He went away justified.

I asked you if you see accepting Christ as the same thing as being born again, and you said nothing at all about accepting Christ, so I don't know the answer to my question.



Yes. Why do you ask? You know I believe in victory over sin, or perfection of character, whichever way one likes to put it.

You also believe God delays dealing with certain sins until after they are born again. You say He only expects them to confess the sins that would prevent them from accepting Jesus. You cite Luther's beer drinking as proof. But what about believing God will burn sinners alive in hell forever and ever? Does this prevent people from accepting Jesus?


Post them so can discuss them. Thank you.

Tom, please address 107508. Thanx.

Question - Are people guilty of committing a certain sin, even though they are not currently committing it, because they have cultivated it in the past and might commit it again in the future?

For example, a believer with a history of losing his patience. Since he has cultivated the habit of impatience in the past, since he has a weakness in that area, since is he prone to be impatient, does that mean he is guilty of sinning even though he is abiding in Jesus and isn't currently being impatient?

IOW, does cultivating sinful traits and habits in the past, does having a history of defects and imperfections, mean people are guilty of sinning even though they are not currently sinning in one of those areas? Are they guilty simply because they have sinned in the recent past? Are they guilty because they might sin again in the near future?

These questions take into consideration knowing God and His loving character is the most thing people can do to grow in grace and mature in the fruits of the Spirit. Demonstrating the character of God to a sin-sick world is the most important thing.

I responded to this awhile ago, but it likes due to some networking issue it didn't get posted. Regarding your question about believing God will burn sinners alive in hell, IMO that certainly could prevent a person from accepting Christ. It wouldn't necessarily do this, which is evident, since there are many who have accepted Christ who believe this, but I say it could, or might, do this because such a thought might lead one to believe God to be cruel or unjust, which in turn might lead one to be embittered against God, a problem which could interfere with accepting Christ.

Regarding overcoming sin, here's one that comes to mind:

Tom, thanx for answering the question about eternal hell. I didn't realize you were as flexible with it as are. I thought you would have said it is impossible to believe God is capable of burning souls alive in hell forever and know the truth about God's kingdom and character too.

Regarding COL 69 as an example of a passage which describes believers being free from all sin. Thank you for posting it. I wasn't sure you were ever going to post one. I agree with you. This passage means they are without sin.

I would say this. Someone who believes God capable of burning people alive in hell forever does not know that truth about God's character. I'd say the same thing about those who think God capable of doing to for many hours or days.

Regarding posting a passage, as I said, I did so quite some time ago, but for some reason it didn't post. Of course, you would have no way of knowing this.

Tom, I was hoping you would address the point in 107667.

Tom, does the sinless experience described in COL 69 you posted above apply only to certain end-time people? Or, is this experience available now? If so, do you know of any other quotes which describe people experiencing sinlessness before end-time events begin to unfold?

For example, what do you think about this passage?

Those who believe on Christ and obey His commandments are not under bondage to God's law; for to those who believe and obey, His law is not a law of bondage, but of liberty. Everyone who believes on Christ, everyone who relies on the keeping power of a risen Saviour that has suffered the penalty pronounced upon the transgressor, everyone who resists temptation and in the midst of evil copies the pattern given in the Christ life, will through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ become a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}