But what does it mean to "see our defects of character" more clearly? Is this the same thing as saying we are sinning? It's one thing to possess defects and imperfections and it's quite another thing to act them out in though, word, or deed. So long as people are abiding in Jesus they will be empowered from within to use their faculties of mind and body and soul to subdue their inherited and cultivated defects and imperfections.

Abiding in Jesus enables people to recognize and rein in their inherited and cultivated defects and imperfections, to control them, to subject them to the sanctified higher powers of the will and mind. Yes, the closer people draw to Jesus the more sinful their defects and imperfections will appear to them. But this isn't saying they are more guilty or more sinful or sinning more frequently or discovering sins they were previously unaware of before.

So, the questions remain - Under what conditions can we know we are right with God, that we are without spot or blame, that our service and allegiance are acceptable and pleasing in His sight? Or, would it be too dangerous to know it? Would it be safer for us now to believe we are sinful and unlike Jesus?

are those the right questions?

my "assurance" is that God will do everything He can to save me. i can trust wholly in Him.

Yes, if you believe that imperfection of character is sin. Seeing character imperfection is not the problem; having it is.


True, they are different. But that doesn't mean that character defects are acceptable to God. They are not.


No, it's not.


No, it's not.


No, it's not.


Yes, it is.

Paul said, "When the law came, sin revived and I died." That doesn't mean that he started sinning more when he read the law. Rather, when he read the law, he saw his sins more clearly, sins that he used to think were OK. That's why by the law is the knowledge of sins, not the commission of sins.


When you are hid in Christ, and His character stands in the place of yours, then you know you are acceptable and pleasing in God's sight. Your only hope is to disappear.


No danger in knowing the truth.


Yes, it would be safer because it would be true. The moment you don't see your faults is the moment you have lost sight of Christ.

Amen! God is never the weak link. He is always willing and eager to do His part to enable us to revel in the blessed assurance. But without our consent and cooperation, He is limited in what He can do for us and through us. Listen:


So, yes, under the right conditions, we can revel in the blessed assurance, we can know we are accepted of God, that our love and allegiance is well pleasing to Him. Such peace and joy is awesome! Thank you Jesus!

Arnold, are people supposed to feel foul and filthy while they are abiding in Jesus? Is there no respite from their sinful condition? Must they always view themselves as defective and disgusting? If they are so sinful and wretched why does the Bible describe them as clothed in fine linen? "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Can they not see themselves as God sees them? "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. . . For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

i dont know that i feel that way. i mean, i know i do if i get around certain kinds of people who think they are christians.

but ive never felt that way with God. convicted is a much better word. and why shouldnt we view ourselves as defective?
i dont know, when God convicts me it is a statement of fact but there are no "feelings" with it. but seeing myself as defective is a very good state to be in. it means im always dependent on Christ. defective, but loved and wanted.

im real curious why so many people seem to think its so necessary to be seen as "clean" or "sinless"?

Here's how inspiration tells us will be the experience of those after the close of probation:


They do have fine linen. But it is Christ's robe of righteousness, not theirs, that God looks at. Why? Because only His righteousness meets the perfect standard.


They do, if they stop looking at themselves and look at Christ instead. No matter how holy we may become, Christ's holiness is still what God looks at and accepts.

Because God's requirement now is the same as it was in Eden - perfect obedience, perfect righteousness.

no, i understand that. but im not perfect anything. dont think i can get my point across.....it just doesnt bother me that God sees me warts and all. how would He point out my defects if He didnt. if i keep responding to the Holy Spirit at some point it will all work out, so why do i need Him to see me differently than just exactly what i am?

How I see things. Sin is multifaceted, and sometimes we fail to see some aspect of it. However, God looks at your sincerity of heart, and Christ's righteousness prevents the guilt of those sins to be upon you.

"Jesus is the only hope of the soul. ... The moment the sinner lays hold of Christ by faith, his sins are no longer upon him. Christ stands in the sinner's place, and declares, 'I have borne his guilt, I have been punished for his transgressions, I have taken his sins, and put My righteousness upon him.' In Christ the sinner stands guiltless before the law." {PrT, January 30, 1890 par. 6}