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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: Tom]
#106098
12/14/08 09:44 PM
12/14/08 09:44 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
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T:Sin is lethal, therefore God condemns it. Sin would be lethal regardless of whether or not God condemned it. But because sin is evil, causing death to those whom God loves, He condemns it.
A:And if someone does something that God condemns because he could not see any reason why God condemns it, would it still be lethal? The following discusses this question: Said the angel: "If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject."(EW 73) So, if there is no light, is it still lethal?
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: asygo]
#106103
12/14/08 11:29 PM
12/14/08 11:29 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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No. If there is no sin, and no condemnation, how would it be lethal?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: Tom]
#106104
12/15/08 12:50 AM
12/15/08 12:50 AM
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No. If there is no sin, and no condemnation, how would it be lethal? If that was true, then God should have just kept His mouth shut about everything, kept us all in darkness, then nothing would be lethal. Then, in the end, it was God's fault that these things are lethal by shedding light on the matter. I don't think that's the way things are. Adultery is lethal, not just because God says it is, and not because you agree with God, but because adultery is inherently bad for us. Sin is sin because it is sin, not because of God's light.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: asygo]
#106112
12/15/08 07:13 AM
12/15/08 07:13 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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What do you make of the statement then? Said the angel: "If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject."(EW 73)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: Tom]
#106114
12/15/08 08:00 AM
12/15/08 08:00 AM
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SDA
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If there's no light, there's no condemnation, no guilt, no sin.
However, that thing they did which God condemns but they didn't know, it's probably inherently bad, and that's why God condemns it. And they will still suffer because of it. Jumping off a cliff is painful, whether or not you knew anything about it beforehand.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: asygo]
#106119
12/15/08 08:38 AM
12/15/08 08:38 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lawrence, Kansas
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I wrote: T:Sin is lethal, therefore God condemns it. Sin would be lethal regardless of whether or not God condemned it. But because sin is evil, causing death to those whom God loves, He condemns it. Shortly thereafter you wrote: Adultery is lethal, not just because God says it is, and not because you agree with God, but because adultery is inherently bad for us. which sounds a lot like what I wrote. Do you agree with what I wrote?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: Tom]
#106160
12/16/08 03:00 PM
12/16/08 03:00 PM
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SDA
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Posts: 5,615
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I agree with that sentiment. But I do not agree with your later comments, saying that what God condemns are not lethal unless one knows that they are. The oft-repeated saying, "What you don't know can't hurt you," is merely wishful thinking.
What you said at first and what you said later contradict, unless we are going to believe that human knowledge makes something lethal.
Of course, the most lethal thing is to knowingly disregard God's expressed will.
Last edited by asygo; 12/16/08 03:01 PM.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: asygo]
#106167
12/16/08 07:26 PM
12/16/08 07:26 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I wasn't trying to say anything different than what the angel said to Ellen White. You wrote, "If there's no light, there's no condemnation, no guilt, no sin." What do you mean by this?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: Tom]
#106206
12/17/08 07:12 PM
12/17/08 07:12 PM
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SDA
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It is meant in the legal sense, so you might not agree. In a forensic sense, there is no guilt incurred. If one does something against God's will because he didn't know any better, it is "unknown sin" and is handled differently than willful sin.
However, ignorance does not save one from the practical effects of doing that which God says we should not do. Even if there is no legal problem, it still hurts; it could even kill.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Is this person saved or lost?
[Re: Tom]
#106207
12/17/08 07:14 PM
12/17/08 07:14 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
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I wasn't trying to say anything different than what the angel said to Ellen White. The angel didn't say it wasn't lethal.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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