What would be the ideal in our penal system? To punish, or to get criminals to not want to be criminals? Do we want to get even with them for what they did? Or would the ideal be to motivate them into different more constructive behavior?

M:You, however, believe Satan caused these things to happen, that they are evidences of his power, that he designed them to make God look bad, and that anyone who believes God caused them to happen, or that it was God's will and purpose for them to happen, is deceived.

T: This is a flat out lie.

M:What do you believe in relation to this quote? Please answer the following questions in relation to this quote:

1. Is it God's will and purpose?
2. Does God cause it to happen?
3. Is it an evidence of God's power?
4. Does God do it to cause people to tremble before Him?

And, another question: Did Jesus ever do it while here in the flesh?

The idea that God compromised the truth to accommodate the perverted desires of sinners is absurd. The Bible is too plainly worded to be mistaken or misunderstood.

M:You, however, believe Satan caused these things to happen, that they are evidences of his power, that he designed them to make God look bad, and that anyone who believes God caused them to happen, or that it was God's will and purpose for them to happen, is deceived.

T: This is a flat out lie.

M: What do you believe in relation to this quote? Please answer the following questions in relation to this quote:

1. Is it God's will and purpose?
2. Does God cause it to happen?
3. Is it an evidence of God's power?
4. Does God do it to cause people to tremble before Him?

And, another question: Did Jesus ever do it while here in the flesh?

T: None of the things you asserted above are things I've ever said. I've repeatedly asked you to quote things I've said for that reason.

Regarding your questions, I believe God withdrew His protection which accounted for the earthquake, and did so for the reasons pointed out. Regarding while Jesus was here in the flesh, the cleansing of the temple seems to bring out similar principles in terms of "trembling before Him."

Do you disagree with the idea that all that man can know of God was revealed by the life and character of Jesus Christ during His time with us in the flesh?

Luke 16:20- "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus,"

God controls all these elements; they are his instruments to do his will; he calls them into action to serve his purpose. These fiery issues have been, and will be his agents to blot out from the earth very wicked cities. Like Korah, Dathan and Abiram they go down alive into the pit. These are evidences of God's power. Those who have beheld these burning mountains have been struck with terror at the grandeur of the scene--pouring forth fire, and flame, and a vast amount of melted ore, drying up rivers and causing them to disappear. They have been filled with awe as though they were beholding the infinite power of God. {3SG 80.2}
These manifestations bear the special marks of God's power, and are designed to cause the people of the earth to tremble before him, and to silence those, who like Pharaoh would proudly say, "Who is the Lord that I should obey his voice?" Isaiah refers to these exhibitions of God's power where he exclaims, "Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence as when the melting fire burneth. The fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence. When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence. {3SG 81.1}
"The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked. The Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry and drieth up all the rivers. Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth. The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured our like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him. {3SG 81.2}
"Bow thy heavens, O, Lord, and come down. Touch the mountains, and they shall smoke. Cast forth lightning, and scatter them. Shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them." {3SG 81.3}
Greater wonders than have yet been seen will be witnessed by those upon the earth a short period previous to the coming of Christ. "And I will show wonders in the heavens above, and signs in the earth beneath, blood and fire and vapour of smoke." "And there were voices and thunders and lightnings, and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake and so great. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent; and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, for the plague thereof was exceeding great." {3SG 82.1}
The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from Heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {3SG 82.2}
In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from Heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence. Whole rivers will be dried up. The earth will be convulsed, and there will be dreadful eruptions and earthquakes everywhere. God will plague the wicked inhabitants of the earth until they are destroyed from off it. {3SG 82.3}
The saints are preserved in the earth in the midst of these dreadful commotions, as Noah was preserved in the ark at the time of the flood. Christ appears in his glory, and calls forth the righteous dead. The living saints are changed, and, with the resurrected dead, are borne away from the earth by angels to meet their Lord in the air. The earth is left like a desolate wilderness. {3SG 83.1}

I was shown that the judgments of God would not come directly out from the Lord upon them, but in this way: They place themselves beyond His protection. He warns, corrects, reproves, and points out the only path of safety; then, if those who have been the objects of His special care will follow their own course, independent of the Spirit of God, after repeated warnings, if they choose their own way, then He does not commission His angels to prevent Satan's decided attacks upon them. {LDE 242.1}
It is Satan's power that is at work at sea and on land, bringing calamity and distress and sweeping off multitudes to make sure of his prey.--14MR 3 (1883). {LDE 242.2}
God will use His enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth of God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored.--PC 136 (1894). {LDE 242.3}
Already the Spirit of God, insulted, refused, abused, is being withdrawn from the earth. Just as fast as God's Spirit is taken away, Satan's cruel work will be done upon land and sea.--Ms 134, 1898. {LDE 242.4}
The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation; the Spirit of God, persistently resisted, has been at last withdrawn. Unsheltered by divine grace, they have no protection from the wicked one.--GC 614 (1911). {LDE 242.5}
At Times Holy Angels Exercise Destructive Power [THE SINNER MUST HIMSELF BEAR FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE PUNISHMENT THAT IS METED OUT TO HIM. ELLEN WHITE STATES, "GOD DESTROYS NO ONE. THE SINNER DESTROYS HIMSELF BY HIS OWN IMPENITENCE." 5T 120. SEE FURTHER THE GREAT CONTROVERSY, PP. 25-37.]

John the Revelator represents the forces of the earth as four winds, which are held in check by angels delegated to do this work. He declares: "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" [Rev. 7:1-3]. {19MR 279.1}
From this vision we can learn why so many are preserved from calamity. If these winds were allowed to blow upon the earth, they would create havoc and desolation. But the world's intricate machinery is running under the Lord's supervision. Hurricanes, threatening to break forth, are held under control by the regulations of the One who is the Protector of the trembling ones that fear God and keep His commandments. The Lord holds back the tempestuous winds. He will not suffer them to go forth on their death-mission of vengeance until His servants are sealed in their foreheads. {19MR 279.2}
Frequently we hear of earthquakes, of tempests and tornadoes, accompanied with thunder and lightning. Apparently these are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces. But God has a purpose in permitting these calamities to occur. They are one of His means of calling men and women to their senses. By unusual workings through nature God will express to -280- doubting human agencies that which He clearly reveals in His Word. He will answer the question, "Who hath gathered the wind in His fists?" He will reveal Himself as the One who "maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind." "He bringeth the wind out of His treasuries." "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever." "He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth." "He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: He toucheth the hills, and they smoke." {19MR 279.3}
Local disturbances in nature are permitted to take place as symbols of that which may be expected all over the world when the angels loose the four winds of the earth. The forces of nature are under the direction of an Eternal Agency. Science, in her pride, may seek to explain strange happenings on land and on sea; but science fails of tracing in these things the workings of Providence. Science fails of perceiving that intemperance is the cause of most of the frequent accidents so terrible in their results. {19MR 280.1}
Men on whom devolve grave responsibilities in safeguarding their fellow men from accident and harm, are often untrue to their trust. Because of indulgence in tobacco and liquor, they do not keep the mind clear and composed as did Daniel in the courts of Babylon. They becloud the brain by using stimulating narcotics, and temporarily lose their reasoning faculties. Many a shipwreck upon the high seas can be traced to liquor drinking. Time and again have unseen angels protected vessels on the broad ocean because on board there were some praying passengers who had faith in God's keeping power. The Lord has power to hold in abeyance the angry waves so impatient to destroy and engulf His children.
-281- {19MR 280.2}
The same Hand that kept the fiery serpents of the wilderness from entering the camp of the Israelites until God's chosen people provoked Him with their constant murmurs and complaints, is today guarding the honest in heart. Were this restraining Hand withdrawn, the enemy of our souls would at once begin the work of destruction that he has so long desired to accomplish. And because God's long-continued forbearance is not now recognized, the forces of evil are already, to a limited degree, permitted to destroy. How soon human agencies will see blotted out of existence their magnificent buildings, which are their pride! {19MR 281.1}
How often have those in danger of being destroyed by terrible outbreakings of winds and waters been mercifully shielded from harm! Do we realize that we have been spared from destruction only because of the protecting care of unseen agencies? Although many ships have gone down and many men and women on board have perished, God has mercifully spared His people. But we should not be surprised if some of those who love and fear God were to be engulfed in the tempestuous waters of the ocean. They would sleep until the Lifegiver comes to give them life. We are not to cast one word of reflection upon God or upon His manner of working. {19MR 281.2}

You, however, believe Satan caused these things to happen, that they are evidences of his power, that he designed them to make God look bad, and that anyone who believes God caused them to happen, or that it was God's will and purpose for them to happen, is deceived.

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. (GC 35)

Finally, you asked, "Do you disagree with the idea that all that man can know of God was revealed by the life and character of Jesus Christ during His time with us in the flesh?" No. But I do agree with the following insight: "All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son." {8T 286.1}

All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." John 1:18. Taking humanity upon Him, Christ came to be one with humanity and at the same time to reveal our heavenly Father to sinful human beings.(8T 286)

Kland, I take it you mean to say this parable is an example of God compromising the truth to accommodate the perverted desires of sinners. If so, please explain how. Thank you.