Teresaq, the difference between sunlight and candlelight is not measured in terms of bad. Neither does it have anything to do with shades of darkness. Instead, it has to do with depth and degree of righteousness.

"Even the most perfect Christian may increase continually in the knowledge and love of God. (ML 249) "The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit. This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another. {ML 250.4} This “work of progression will not cease, but will continue throughout eternity.” (HP 186)

Does this sound like the truth?

We can't say, Teresa: except that we have the operative word "reflect". Jesus works with us and we with him so that and until we reflect his character for the world to see. Perfect Christlikeness is God's ideal for children, which is higher than the highest human thought can reach.

Equally, reflecting Christlikeness is being fitted for heaven, so Christ's perfection is 'beyond' us since we receive him and don't claim equality with him: this gospel glory of perfect Godliness is the 'supreme' miracle of God's promises, not any 'better than' others round us experience or as good as Jesus comparison.

Can God achieve the impossible and effect actual Christlikeness in us for one generation of believers? We believe so, and that's to God the Father's glory, through Jesus Christ.

I found that the article, though claiming to have easily settle some controversial issues, does not address certain important angles. When I brought them up with KP, he said, essentially, that I will only get more confused if I continue to study the matter in too much detail. But the way I see it, if his thesis can only be understood and accepted if one ignores the details, then it is not built on a solid foundation.

Perhaps my biggest problem with the article is that KP seems to believe that our greatest struggles against sin centers around the lower nature. But it is a damaged spirit/character that is our worst problem.

In any case, here's something to consider:
1) Where does the character reside, in the higher or lower nature?
2) In the nature where character resides, was Jesus like the unregenerate sinner with an unrenewed heart?
3a) If He was, then why do we spend any effort in effecting the sinner's regeneration? If he's already like Jesus, leave him alone because he's doing fine.
3b) If He was not, then of what spiritual value is it to wrestle over the aspects in which He was like the sinner, if those aspects do not include the character, which is the sinner's biggest, if not only, problem?

Are "character" and "nature" equivalent in this quote?

Were you speaking to him in person, or was this a written exchange? I'd be interested in what he actually wrote, if you could produce that.

Regarding the character/nature question, character is not hereditary whereas nature, in the sense of flesh, is. Christ's character was different than man's because He never sinned, not because His heredity was different than ours.

I think Paulson did fine in handling the linguistic aspect of the question, but he ignored the historical side, which is an even stronger argument (although maybe he deals with this elsewhere; I don't know). Ellen White's contemporaries seemed to have no difficulty understanding what she believed. It seems odd that a century later that others who didn't know her would come up with theories which contradict what those who actually worked with her, and preached with her on this very subject, believed (regarding her beliefs).

That is pretty much what many believe. They want to bring Jesus down to the unconverted mans level, thinking that by doing that, that that in some way gives the unconverted man hope.

That would be like if a man is sitting in a bar, completely drunk....and you wanted to help the man, but you were told you could not help him unless you were a recovered alcoholic...then you could help him - That only someone who has been as low as he is, can reach him. That is nonsense!

Kevin Paulson is actually an inactive member here, therefore, somebody may wish to contact him and alert him by linking him to this topic.

i havent been able to go through all the writings, yet, of the pioneers regarding the human nature of Christ. would you have some handy? besides jones and/or waggoners statements i mean.

i got the impression from somewhere that post-laps believed we could be cleansed of all sin. this isnt true?

Honestly Teresa, I don't really understand the definitions of post and prelaps... I understand New Theology and "Fordism"...but I don't understand the other two....sorry...