Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,214
Members1,326
|
Most Online5,850 Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
8 registered members (Karen Y, dedication, Daryl, daylily, TheophilusOne, 3 invisible),
2,504
guests, and 13
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
#8977
01/08/06 12:05 PM
01/08/06 12:05 PM
|
OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
|
|
This statement MM presents more of a challenge to us than most because it is not only from her pen, it is in a vision. Either she was wrong, or there is an underlying harmony. I'm sure it is the latter. On the thread 'Is there a Divine/Biblical Calendar?' we're discussing another apparent disagreement between some of her statements that she makes regarding the timing of the crucifixion. On the surface it seems that at least two of her statements cannot possibly agree, but I'm quite sure that is not the case. There is an underlying harmony to be found.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
#8978
01/08/06 04:29 PM
01/08/06 04:29 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Mark, I did some research and discovered that the high priest wore a blue robe over a common linen garment. On the hem of this blue robe were bells and pomegranates. The ephod and breastplate were worn over the blue robe.
Sister White consistently saw Jesus in the MHP with bells and pomegranates, which suggests He was wearing the blue robe. It could be assumed that He was also wearing the ephod and breastplate. But, in the EW 251 quote, posted below, she says Jesus didn’t don the high priestly attire until just before entering the MHP. This suggests He wasn’t wearing them while He was ministering in the HP.
Ex 28:4 And these [are] the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
PP 350, 351 The garments of the high priest were of costly material and beautiful workmanship, befitting his exalted station. In addition to the linen dress of the common priest, he wore a robe of blue, also woven in one piece. Around the skirt it was ornamented with golden bells, and pomegranates of blue, purple, and scarlet. Outside of this was the ephod, a shorter garment of gold, blue, purple, scarlet, and white. It was confined by a girdle of the same colors, beautifully wrought. The ephod was sleeveless, and on its gold-embroidered shoulder pieces were set two onyx stones, bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. {PP 350.3}
Over the ephod was the breastplate, the most sacred of the priestly vestments. This was of the same material as the ephod. It was in the form of a square, measuring a span, and was suspended from the shoulders by a cord of blue from golden rings. The border was formed of a variety of precious stones, the same that form the twelve foundations of the City of God. Within the border were twelve stones set in gold, arranged in rows of four, and, like those in the shoulder pieces, engraved with the names of the tribes. The Lord's direction was, "Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the Lord continually." Exodus 28:29. So Christ, the great High Priest, pleading His blood before the Father in the sinner's behalf, bears upon His heart the name of every repentant, believing soul. Says the psalmist, "I am poor and needy; yet the Lord thinketh upon me." Psalm 40:17. {PP 351.1}
EW 36 I was taken off in vision to the most holy place, where I saw Jesus still interceding for Israel. On the bottom of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate. Then I saw that Jesus would not leave the most holy place until every case was decided either for salvation or destruction, and that the wrath of God could not come until Jesus had finished His work in the most holy place, laid off His priestly attire, and clothed Himself with the garments of vengeance. {EW 36.1}
EW 251 I was shown what did take place in heaven at the close of the prophetic periods in 1844. As Jesus ended His ministration in the holy place and closed the door of that apartment, a great darkness settled upon those who had heard and rejected the message of His coming, and they lost sight of Him. Jesus then clothed Himself with precious garments. Around the bottom of His robe was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. A breastplate of curious work was suspended from His shoulders. As He moved, this glittered like diamonds, magnifying letters which looked like names written or engraved upon the breastplate. Upon His head was something which had the appearance of a crown. When fully attired, He was surrounded by angels, and in a flaming chariot He passed within the second veil. {EW 251.2}
According to the following quotes, it seems as though the earthly high priest officiated in the HP in ordinary linen, but upon leaving the MHP he was attired in full regalia. This seems to agree with Sister White’s visions. That is, Jesus wore ordinary linen in the HP, and just before entering and upon leaving the MHP He is seen wearing the pontifical robes. Somewhere along the way, before turning towards earth, Jesus swaps clothes again and puts on the “garments of vengeance”, "whitest of white".
AA 33 (see also DA 25.1) As in the typical service the high priest laid aside his pontifical robes and officiated in the white linen dress of an ordinary priest; so Christ laid aside His royal robes and garbed Himself with humanity and offered sacrifice, Himself the priest, Himself the victim. As the high priest, after performing his service in the holy of holies, came forth to the waiting congregation in his pontifical robes; so Christ will come the second time, clothed in garments of whitest white, "so as no fuller on earth can white them." Mark 9:3. He will come in His own glory, and in the glory of His Father, and all the angelic host will escort Him on His way. {AA 33.3}
FLB 215 When Jesus rises up in the most holy place, and lays off His mediatorial garments, and clothes Himself with the garments of vengeance in place of the priestly attire, the work for sinners will be done. . . . The probation of all closes when the pleading for sinners is ended and the garments of vengeance are put on. {FLB 215.3}
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
#8979
01/08/06 10:17 PM
01/08/06 10:17 PM
|
OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
|
|
Some, maybe most Jewish sources say that the breastplate, the ephod and the golden mitre were not worn into the MHP and they base that on the following passages: quote:
16:3 Thus shall Aaron come into the holy [place]: . . . 16:4 He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these [are] holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and [so] put them on. . . . 16:23 And Aaron [after the sins are placed on the scapegoat] shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy [place], and shall leave them there: 16:24 And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.
It is a reasonable interpretation, but I don’t think the above passage is enough to base a firm opinion on given the text of other passages. For example, Ex 28:30 says the breastplate must be worn when Aaron ‘goes in before the Lord’ which could refer to the MHP. (see below.)
Regarding the ephod which had bells at the bottom of it, Exodus 28 says that the purpose of the bells was so that the sound of him could be heard when he went into the sanctuary alone. This appears to be Holiest too because it is the only part of the temple that excluded everyone but the High Priest.
All things considered, it doesn’t seem difficult to reconcile Ellen White’s vision with the passage in Leviticus 16 regarding the dress, but it would be good to study the reason for the distinction in dress on this day.
The passage you quoted MM from Acts of the Apostles page 33 implies a connection between the MHP ministry of Christ and His life and sacrifice here as an ordinary man. Is this the interpretation she is giving to the verses above? I’m not sure.
But it seems clear that in the types, the pontifical dress was worn for service in the HP and the MHP.
If that is so then when verse 24 says ‘put on his [Aaron’s] own cloths,’ that may refer to the dress of the ordinary priest. The Jews think it refers to the pontifical dress because after this part of the service, the High Priest had the other prescribed offerings to make. And so they think that the High Priest must not have been wearing the pontifical dress in the MHP. But, a better interpretation IMO would be that it refers to the white linen of the ordinary priest. That would harmonize better with Ellen White's visions and the AA statement. And it would harmonize with the types. After the sin of Israel is removed, on the Day of Atonement it is fitting for the High Priest to dress in white. quote:
28:29 And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy [place], for a memorial before the LORD continually. 28:30 And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually. . . . 28:35 And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy [place] before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
#8980
01/10/06 03:52 AM
01/10/06 03:52 AM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Yeah, it makes sense that Jesus wore ordinary linen garments until He entered the MHP, and that He changes garments again when He leaves the MHP to return to earth.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
#8981
01/09/06 09:38 PM
01/09/06 09:38 PM
|
OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
|
|
Well, I think the types are saying pontifical robes for both appartments except for following the Day of Atonement. I could be wrong.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
[Re: Charity]
#100343
06/29/08 09:25 PM
06/29/08 09:25 PM
|
|
As I am looking for something in relation to this type of topic, I am bumping this important topic for possible further discussion.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
[Re: Daryl]
#106606
12/27/08 07:11 PM
12/27/08 07:11 PM
|
|
As I don't want to lose track of this topic, I am bumping it again.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
[Re: Mountain Man]
#106704
12/29/08 12:08 PM
12/29/08 12:08 PM
|
OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
|
|
I reviewed the blotting out of sin issue again. Charlene said that the covering of sin occurs in the Most Holy Place but the blotting out doesn't occur until the times of refreshing. Loughborough agrees with Charlene but James White taught the current blotting out of sins. After that we studied some on the dress of the High Priest on the day of Atonement. From that study we saw that the High Priest wore colorful clothes that included red, a symbol of sin, indicating, in my view, that in his Most Holy ministry, sins blotted out from the books of record are transfered to Himself. If sin is transferred to Christ, I take that to mean it's removed and blotted from heaven's books. To me that's good news indeed - covered by the blood.
This thread was started a while before you joined Roseangela. If you haven't looked at it, I hope you'll read it over and comment.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
[Re: Charity]
#106736
12/29/08 09:28 PM
12/29/08 09:28 PM
|
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Seems to me Jesus earned the right to own our sin and second death by living and dying the perfect life and death. He accomplished this in the OC. From there He entered the HP where He applied the benefits of His blood on behalf of those who experience rebirth and abide in Him. In 1844 He drew aside the veil which separated the HP and the MHP in essence turning them into one apartment.
In addition to His HP ministry Jesus is also now engaged in the preadvent investigative judgment of the righteous saints who have died. Each person is examined. Sins are removed from the books and transferred to Jesus. They are thus blotted out of the books. Names are removed and names are retained. When the time is right, the names of the living will be examined.
When probation closes Jesus will return to earth with the sins of saved and the living lost. He will transfer the sins of the saved upon the head of Satan, and the sins of the living lost will be placed upon their heads.
After the Millennium, during the Great White Throne Judgment of the Wicked, the remaining cases will be dealt with. Jesus will remove the rest of the sins from the books and place them upon the heads of those who committed them. Thus all sins are blotted out of all books. No sins remain in any books. When the wicked die and Jesus converts the planet into the New Earth sin will no longer exist anywhere in the Universe.
|
|
|
Re: Oct. 22, 1844 - More significant than we may think
[Re: Mountain Man]
#107068
01/04/09 12:18 PM
01/04/09 12:18 PM
|
OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
|
|
Yesterday I presented the main ideas here to a little group in Hinton WV - that the Most Holy Place ministry of Christ which began in 1844 has always been available to the church back to the fall of Adam; that His ministry there in the Holiest is His ministry of the New Covenant; that He has always worked to write His law on our hearts; etc. It was well received.
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|