We've discussed this elsewhere and you argued Ellen said polygamy is a sin. You quoted the following passage to prove your point: "Polygamy . . . was no less a violation of the law of God . . ." {PP 145.1} Do you agree polygamy is a sin? If so, do you also believe God permitted it in the law of Moses?

M: I don't see God compromising with sin in this case. Wanting a godly king to lead them was not a sin. Below is the part that sounds like a blessing to me. Having such a king leading the people would be nearly identical to Moses.

17:19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
17:20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, [to] the right hand, or [to] the left: to the end that he may prolong [his] days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

t: so you dont see "going against Gods will" or, "rejecting God to reign over them" a sin, is what you are saying?

T: Regarding Jerusalem, Jesus said He longed to gather them as a hen protects its chicks. That was present tense. Christ would have protected them, had they been willing. He longed for that. They refused.

M: I am specifically looking for examples of Jesus employing the “withdraw and permit” method of causing death and destruction while He was here in the flesh. So far you haven’t posted an example.

T: I not only posted Jerusalem as an example, but I posted other examples as well. You disagree with the underlying principle. How could you possibly agree with the examples of a principle you disagree with?

We've been over this many times. First of all, do you disagree that "a violation of the law of God" is "sin"? Doesn't this follow from the fact that "sin is the transgression of the law"?

There is also the statement from Ellen White God never sanctioned polygamy even once.

As to God's permitting it, this is exactly my point. God has permitted things which are contrary to His will.

Regarding the question of God's permitting it specifically in the law of Moses, there is debate as to this point. Even Jews argue in regards to the levirate marriage.

It amazes me you believe this is an example of Jesus withdrawing His protection and permitting sinners to suffer and die while He was here in the flesh. They didn't suffer and die until 40 years after He returned to heaven. He was not here in the flesh when they suffered and died.

Your pig illustration is closer to the point. Jesus permitted evil angels to enter pigs and drown them in the lake. Why do you think Jesus was capable of allowing such a cruel thing?

Also, your humane hunter story does not explain why God commanded Moses to kill sinners. Unlike the son, the Jews did not know God's will and desire.

M:We've discussed this elsewhere and you argued Ellen said polygamy is a sin. You quoted the following passage to prove your point: "Polygamy . . . was no less a violation of the law of God . . ." {PP 145.1} Do you agree polygamy is a sin? If so, do you also believe God permitted it in the law of Moses?

T:We've been over this many times. First of all, do you disagree that "a violation of the law of God" is "sin"? Doesn't this follow from the fact that "sin is the transgression of the law"?

There is also the statement from Ellen White God never sanctioned polygamy even once.

As to God's permitting it, this is exactly my point. God has permitted things which are contrary to His will.

Regarding the question of God's permitting it specifically in the law of Moses, there is debate as to this point. Even Jews argue in regards to the levirate marriage.

M:"God has permitted things which are contrary to His will." I hear you saying, yes, God compromises with sinners and gives them permission to sin. But why does He do this?

It amazes me you believe this is an example of Jesus withdrawing His protection and permitting sinners to suffer and die while He was here in the flesh. They didn't suffer and die until 40 years after He returned to heaven. He was not here in the flesh when they suffered and died.

If Jesus is none other than God of the Old Testament, it seems to me that you are saying when Jesus was here in the flesh, He acts differently than when He is in heaven -- that location matters. But yet, He has forever maintained some aspects of having taken the form of flesh. Could you explain your above statement in terms of this?

As I'm explained quite a number of times now, Jesus said, in the present tense, that He longed to gather them up (i.e. protect them) as a hen gathers her chicks, but they refused. Refusing protection is exactly the principle involved.

M: Your pig illustration is closer to the point. Jesus permitted evil angels to enter pigs and drown them in the lake. Why do you think Jesus was capable of allowing such a cruel thing?

T: Why do you characterize this as Jesus being cruel, as opposed to the demons who performed the cruelty? I don't understand your attempts to portray God's actions, or Jesus' actions, in as negative a light as possible.

M: Also, your humane hunter story does not explain why God commanded Moses to kill sinners. Unlike the son, the Jews did not know God's will and desire.

T: The point of the story is to illustrate how the counsel of someone can be misconstrued as indicating the will of the purpose giving the counsel. On another thread we're discussing this same point. In Christ, God's will was perfectly revealed.

M:We've discussed this elsewhere and you argued Ellen said polygamy is a sin. You quoted the following passage to prove your point: "Polygamy . . . was no less a violation of the law of God . . ." {PP 145.1} Do you agree polygamy is a sin? If so, do you also believe God permitted it in the law of Moses?

T:We've been over this many times. First of all, do you disagree that "a violation of the law of God" is "sin"? Doesn't this follow from the fact that "sin is the transgression of the law"?

There is also the statement from Ellen White God never sanctioned polygamy even once.

As to God's permitting it, this is exactly my point. God has permitted things which are contrary to His will.

Regarding the question of God's permitting it specifically in the law of Moses, there is debate as to this point. Even Jews argue in regards to the levirate marriage.

M:"God has permitted things which are contrary to His will." I hear you saying, yes, God compromises with sinners and gives them permission to sin. But why does He do this?

T: How do you hear "God compromises with sinners" when what is said is "God has permitted things which are contrary to His will"? I don't understand that.

You didn't address my question.

1.Do you disagree that "a violation of the law of God" is "sin"? Doesn't this follow from the fact that "sin is the transgression of the law"?

Another question is if you agree that God has permitted things contrary to His will.

T:As I'm explained quite a number of times now, Jesus said, in the present tense, that He longed to gather them up (i.e. protect them) as a hen gathers her chicks, but they refused. Refusing protection is exactly the principle involved.

M:Are you saying Jesus withdrew His protection at this time? If so, that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking for an example of Jesus employing the "withdraw and permit" method of causing death and destruction while He was here in the flesh, before He died on the cross and returned to heaven.

M: Your pig illustration is closer to the point. Jesus permitted evil angels to enter pigs and drown them in the lake. Why do you think Jesus was capable of allowing such a cruel thing?

T: Why do you characterize this as Jesus being cruel, as opposed to the demons who performed the cruelty? I don't understand your attempts to portray God's actions, or Jesus' actions, in as negative a light as possible.

M:I don't understand why you attempt to twist my question into a negative light.

The point of the story, then, does not address the point of the question. The son did not misunderstand the will of the father. The Jews, however, did not understand God's will concerning the sinners, which why is they asked Him. Your story does not reflect these fasts. You cannot hide behind your story as if you've answered the question.

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.(Luke 9:56)

You seem to be saying, yes, polygamy is a sin, and yes, God permitted the Jews to practice polygamy.

No, yes, and yes to your questions.

In the NT Jesus died on the cross. He didn't die on the cross in the OT. This is but one example of how Jesus behaved differently in the two testaments.