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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Tom]
#108047
02/08/09 10:12 PM
02/08/09 10:12 PM
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given the scheme of things, the biblical latter days could very well mean the last two thousand years. 4000 had already passed.
paul had the 2300 day prophecy, and as well-studied as he, at least, was, it is rather hard to believe that they didnt have a clue.
but if thessalonians is read in a different light by others, so be it. i dont particularly choose to believe that those before were so ignorant and we are so much smarter, at least that is the impression i get.
we are laodicea, not any other church. we think we have everything, when we have nothing.
Last edited by teresaq; 02/08/09 10:13 PM.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108059
02/09/09 04:52 AM
02/09/09 04:52 AM
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In other words, what the Bible authors BELIEVED, and what the Bible TEACHES, including what the prophets themselves may have taught, are not always the same. What is an example of something a true prophet taught in the Bible which is not what the Bible itself taught? Tom already referred to the examples I gave (thank you Tom), but let me clarify my meaning in this quotation. When I said "including what the prophets themselves may have taught," I meant that they taught that which they may not have believed/understood. In other words, sometimes they were inspired to present something, when they themselves did not realize the significance of it. I did not mean to say that the prophets ever taught something that is not Biblical. Although they may have believed things which were unbiblical, their teachings were inspired, and fully biblical, even though they may have spoken the truth unwittingly at times. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: teresaq]
#108072
02/09/09 08:17 PM
02/09/09 08:17 PM
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given the scheme of things, the biblical latter days could very well mean the last two thousand years. 4000 had already passed.
paul had the 2300 day prophecy, and as well-studied as he, at least, was, it is rather hard to believe that they didnt have a clue.
but if thessalonians is read in a different light by others, so be it. i dont particularly choose to believe that those before were so ignorant and we are so much smarter, at least that is the impression i get.
we are laodicea, not any other church. we think we have everything, when we have nothing. The following passage seems to suggest John felt he was living in "the last time". What is "the last time" he was referring to? 1 John
2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Peter and Jude also referred to "the last time" in the context of Christ's return in the following passages: 1 Peter
1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.
Jude
1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. Are we to conclude John, Peter, and Jude all believed time would last beyond 1844 when they wrote about being in "the last time"? Or, is there another way of looking at their use of the expression "the last time"?
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108091
02/09/09 11:50 PM
02/09/09 11:50 PM
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When I said "including what the prophets themselves may have taught," I meant that they taught that which they may not have believed/understood. In other words, sometimes they were inspired to present something, when they themselves did not realize the significance of it. What is an example of something a true prophet taught that he "may not have believed"? Mike, I think there are a lot of things which the prophets taught without realizing it. For example, Psalm 22. It was surely written under inspiration, but I'm of a mind to think David had more personal thoughts when writing it, and did not have a vision of Jesus on the cross. Yet this same chapter teaches us some very specific things that would happen to Jesus. Only God could have orchestrated such beautiful correlation, but I am very dubious that David had a full realization of the significance of what he was saying. God is so great that he can use the lowliest prophet to express truths of which the prophet himself is unaware. Remember Baalam? Do you really think that Baalam knew the full sigificance of the words God put in his mouth? Do you think Moses understood the symbolic significance of striking the rock the first time, and speaking to it the second? If he had known, it would have made his sin so much the greater, had he not followed the directions given him. God does not always tell the prophets what the significance is. He just uses their words and actions to teach HIS timeless truths. Look at Ezekiel. He was told exactly what to say and do in some of his prophecies. His prophecy foretells the besiegement and destruction of Jerusalem 40 years after Christ's crucifixion. Do you think Ezekiel knew that those events would occur? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #6 - Testing the PROPHETS
[Re: Mountain Man]
#108104
02/10/09 04:23 AM
02/10/09 04:23 AM
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given the scheme of things, the biblical latter days could very well mean the last two thousand years. 4000 had already passed.
paul had the 2300 day prophecy, and as well-studied as he, at least, was, it is rather hard to believe that they didnt have a clue.
but if thessalonians is read in a different light by others, so be it. i dont particularly choose to believe that those before were so ignorant and we are so much smarter, at least that is the impression i get.
we are laodicea, not any other church. we think we have everything, when we have nothing. The following passage seems to suggest John felt he was living in "the last time". What is "the last time" he was referring to? ....Are we to conclude John, Peter, and Jude all believed time would last beyond 1844 when they wrote about being in "the last time"? Or, is there another way of looking at their use of the expression "the last time"? i have come across different sources that, briefly, state the jews believed there would be 7000 years of history. if that is true the jewish believers werent necessarily expecting a quick return of Christ. just how much the bible writers and believers understood of what they wrote im not inclined to get into speculation. im not sure what the benefits to that line of thinking are. it just seems to me that the latter days doesnt necessarily mean days, weeks, months or even years. they could very well have been understood as centuries and millenia, but compared to the preceding 4000 years are now the "latter days". symbolic language if you will. so to emphasize i would not know how much the bible writers and believers of the millenia knew or understood, but it seems to me they probably understood more than they are given credit for.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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