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Re: The Covenants [Re: kland] #108322
02/13/09 08:35 PM
02/13/09 08:35 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: kland
"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown."

If God doesn't stand as executioner and leaves them to themselves, could you explain how that fits in with: "Kland, the following quote does not explain all the different ways and methods God has employed over the years to punish sinners.

It doesn't.

Re: The Covenants [Re: Tom] #108323
02/13/09 08:41 PM
02/13/09 08:41 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
T:Regarding Moses and the Sabbath-breaker, I don't have anything to add to what we've discussed previously. The point I've been trying to make is that if there is a discrepancy between something we think that happened in the OT and what Jesus Christ revealed of God during His earthly mission, we should take the position that what Jesus Christ revealed is accurate, full, and complete, and that our idea of what happened in the OT which we perceive as being contradictory is what should be adjusted. This is as opposed to reaching the conclusion that Jesus Christ did not reveal all that God can know of God (but did something more limited, for example, revealing only what certain individuals could comprehend at the time).

M:Tom, please answer the questions I posted above. Your unwillingness to explain why God commanded Moses to kill the Sabbath-breaker and the blasphemer leads me to suspect you believe He didn't.

T: Please note the underlined sentence. Also the rest of the post, which makes the point I've been wishing to make. You can choose to agree or disagree with the point, but I think this is about as far as we can go on this subject for the time being.

Given everything you've ever posted about it, I am forced to conclude, therefore, you do *not* believe God commanded Moses to kill the Sabbath-breaker and the blasphemer. If this isn't what you believe, then please tell me now, otherwise, you leave me with no other option. Thank you.

Re: The Covenants [Re: Mountain Man] #108326
02/13/09 10:41 PM
02/13/09 10:41 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Given everything you've ever posted about it, I am forced to conclude, therefore, you do *not* believe God commanded Moses to kill the Sabbath-breaker and the blasphemer. If this isn't what you believe, then please tell me now, otherwise, you leave me with no other option. Thank you.


It doesn't matter what I believe about this. The point I've been trying to make is that if there is a discrepancy between something we think that happened in the OT and what Jesus Christ revealed of God during His earthly mission, we should take the position that what Jesus Christ revealed is accurate, full, and complete, and that our idea of what happened in the OT which we perceive as being contradictory is what should be adjusted.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Covenants [Re: Tom] #108327
02/13/09 10:45 PM
02/13/09 10:45 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown."

K:If God doesn't stand as executioner and leaves them to themselves, could you explain how that fits in with: "Kland, the following quote does not explain all the different ways and methods God has employed over the years to punish sinners.

M:It doesn't.


As one who frequently complains about he inadequacy of completed answers, this is hardly an explanation that could be considered in any sense an explanation.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Covenants [Re: Tom] #108404
02/15/09 06:19 PM
02/15/09 06:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
It doesn't matter what I believe about this.

Does this mean you agree with my conclusion regarding your view? It is, after all, in harmony with your belief God didn't do anything in the OT that contradicts what Jesus did in the NT. It is clear, therefore, that you believe God did not command Moses to kill sinners. You believe the following passages must be interpreted to mean God did not command Moses to kill sinners:

Numbers
15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Leviticus
24:23 And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.

PS - I haven't found Kland's comments or questions interesting or inviting.

Re: The Covenants [Re: Mountain Man] #108438
02/16/09 02:48 PM
02/16/09 02:48 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,494
Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: kland
"God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown."

If God doesn't stand as executioner and leaves them to themselves, could you explain how that fits in with: "Kland, the following quote does not explain all the different ways and methods God has employed over the years to punish sinners.

It doesn't.

So what should we conclude here?


Quote:
PS - I haven't found Kland's comments or questions interesting or inviting.

But inviting enough to say, "Kland, the following quote does not explain all the different ways and methods God has employed over the years to punish sinners."

Interesting. Did you just justify my previously mentioned feelings?

Re: The Covenants [Re: kland] #108442
02/16/09 03:27 PM
02/16/09 03:27 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Kland
So what should we conclude here?

That the quote you posted says "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown."

Quote:
Did you just justify my previously mentioned feelings?

No.

Re: The Covenants [Re: Mountain Man] #108447
02/16/09 04:30 PM
02/16/09 04:30 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
T:It doesn't matter what I believe about this.

M:Does this mean you agree with my conclusion regarding your view?


No.

Quote:
It is, after all, in harmony with your belief God didn't do anything in the OT that contradicts what Jesus did in the NT. It is clear, therefore, that you believe God did not command Moses to kill sinners. You believe the following passages must be interpreted to mean God did not command Moses to kill sinners:

Numbers
15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Leviticus
24:23 And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.


I think the hunter/father story is a better explanation of how I see this incident.

Quote:
PS - I haven't found Kland's comments or questions interesting or inviting.


I think he has been frustrated by your responses, which explains his comments. I think his questions are very interesting. I hope you two can get a dialog going.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Covenants [Re: Mountain Man] #108511
02/17/09 03:12 PM
02/17/09 03:12 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,494
Midland
Originally Posted By: Tom
I think he has been frustrated by your responses, which explains his comments.

I think that's an understatement! wink

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: Kland
So what should we conclude here?

That the quote you posted says....

Oh thank you for telling me what the quote says that I quoted. Seriously, did you not understand that what I was asking was what should we conclude as to your contradiction between what you said and the quote; between your idea of God and the quote?

Re: The Covenants [Re: kland] #108546
02/17/09 09:19 PM
02/17/09 09:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Kland, to be honest, I do not enjoy studying with you. Your comments and questions do not interest me in the least. I get the feeling they are calculated to demonstrate how much my views disgust you. Unless I feel impressed to do otherwise, do not expect me to respond to your questions and comments.

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