it was merely a suggestion you might consider considering.

maybe i am not coming up with the right words for you to understand my question....

or perhaps we read the scriptures differently....

im asking where it specifically says, if you/we dont live up to the perfect law of love, live up to Gods perfect loving character, then He will kill us, or words/thoughts to that effect....

That is the part that we find in Romans 3 and Galatians 3.

in Christ,

Bob

hmmmmm, interesting.

In the SOP we read that self-sacrificing love is the "law of life" for the universe, and that this law was broken by Satan, who then convinced others to also break it by misrepresenting God's character.

If we view God as one who will torture and kill those who disobey Him (or "torment and kill" if preferred), then it seems to me that this cannot but help lead to one's being afraid of God, leading to a religion based on fear of punishment and hope of reward. The underlying issue of sin, which is selfishness, is not treated. Why? Because the love of God, which frees one from sin, is not comprehended. This point is brought out here:



This was responded to with the words "not even close," yet from "The Desire of Ages" we read:



Isn't this precisely the same thought which was rejected?

Now if God must kill those who disobey Him, the implication is that sin is not to bad, except for God's disliking of it. That is, if God would simply leave those alone who sin, they could get along forever. There's a rejection of the idea that sin, when it finishes, brings forth death, or that death is the inevitable result of sin. Sin is not seen as a lethal force. Since selfishness is the essence of sin, selfishness is not seen as something which leads to death, but as something which could promote life, if God did not intervene and kill those who are selfish.

Also God, rather than saving one from the lethality of sin, is one who saves from His punishment of sin; God saves us from Himself! If we do what He says, then He agrees not to torture (or torment) and kill us.

Ellen was also discussing justice in the Bible. I merely compared his and her observations and conclusions. They are very much different. Where he and she contradict one another I side with her. For example, I agree with the way she contrasts mercy and justice in the following passage:

The One who has stood as our intercessor; who hears all penitential prayers and confessions; who is represented with a rainbow, the symbol of grace and love, encircling His head, is soon to cease His work in the heavenly sanctuary. Grace and mercy will then descend from the throne, and justice will take their place. He for whom His people have looked will assume His right--the office of Supreme Judge (RH Jan. 1, 1889). {7BC 989.11}

Obviously mercy and justice are not one and the same aspects of the plan of salvation. Mercy serves on the throne until justice takes it place. They do not serve on the throne simultaneously. "Then I saw Jesus lay off His priestly attire and clothe Himself with His most kingly robes. . . And as mercy's sweet voice died away, fear and horror seized the wicked." {SR 404.1} "But the door of mercy is closed to the wicked, no more prayers are offered in their behalf, after probation ends." {3BC 1150.7}

She goes on to explain what happens when mercy and justice trade places on the throne:


"When that limit is reached, then the offers of mercy are withdrawn, and the ministration of judgment begins."

Consider the following insights:

Oh, let us contemplate the amazing sacrifice that has been made for us! Let us try to appreciate the labor and energy that Heaven is expending to reclaim the lost, and bring them back to the Father's house. Motives stronger, and agencies more powerful, could never be brought into operation; the exceeding rewards for right-doing, the enjoyment of heaven, the society of the angels, the communion and love of God and His Son, the elevation and extension of all our powers throughout eternal ages--are these not mighty incentives and encouragements to urge us to give the heart's loving service to our Creator and Redeemer? {SC 21.3}

And, on the other hand, the judgments of God pronounced against sin, the inevitable retribution, the degradation of our character, and the final destruction, are presented in God's word to warn us against the service of Satan. {SC 21.4}

How about this?

Regarding #108766, if you wish to rebut what the sharktacos website was saying, you'll have to consider Scripture.

For example:



According to the LORD, true justice is executed by showing mercy and compassion to one's brother.

Interesting Idea. If we were at a point in time where we had not yet read the Bible and were sort of supposing to ourselves what it "might mean" if we found certain statements in the bible - that would probably go farther.

But having a Bible as we all do - the real question is "what does the Bible actually say" as opposed to "suppose we found x and y in the Bible that would mean...".


Here we have God giving HIS input on the topic -








Luke 12
4 ""I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.
5 ""But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him![/color][/quote]

Quote:

Luke 14
[color:#CC0000]26"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

Jude points out that Sodom and Gomorrah undergo the "punishment of eternal fire" and in Genesis God says he is going have the wicked state of those cities confirmed before visting them with all-destroying judgment. Never does God say to Abraham "the earth wants to destroy the cities and I am going to check them out first to see if I should let the earth do what it so desperately wants to do" - as I am sure we all agree.

God does not present this supernatural act of God as though "man burns himself in fire and brimstone" or as if man measures out the exact amount of torment he owed according to the law - then supernaturally enables his life to remain vital in the lake of fire so as to suffer the amount of torment and suffering owed.

None of that is "an act of man".

Nor is it "nature just so happening to measure out torment appropriate to guilt".

As I am sure we all agree.

in Christ,

Bob