Tom, I can count on you to compare my view of hell to the Catholic view. You are if nothing else consistent and predictable.

What is the answer to the title question of this thread - Does God punish? From what I can tell both Tom and Teresaq would answer - Yes! So would Bob and I. Tom and Teresaq are convinced their view of how God punishes sinners is humane;

whereas, they would characterize the view Bob and I advocate as inhumane and cruel involving force, violence, and torture.

Somehow the wicked suffer in the lake of fire described above in proportion and in duration to their sinfulness. Exactly how it happens is not clearly explained.

Obviously there are dynamics at work which make it possible. To insist the description above is symbolic, that the fire therein depicted is not real, ignores the obvious. "The language of the Bible should be explained according to its obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed."

The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked.

By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.

The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God.

The religion of the Bible, full of love and goodness, and abounding in compassion, is darkened by superstition and clothed with terror. When we consider in what false colors Satan has painted the character of God, can we wonder that our merciful Creator is feared, dreaded, and even hated? The appalling views of God which have spread over the world from the teachings of the pulpit have made thousands, yes, millions, of skeptics and infidels.

http://spiritlessons.com/documents/7_jovenes/English_7_Jovenes_Hell.htm

would this be a good picture of how you see it going down, brother bob?

http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter01998.htm


"Every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire." "The indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He hath utterly destroyed them, He hath delivered them to the slaughter." "Upon the wicked He shall rain quick burning coals, fire and brimstone and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Isaiah 9:5; 34:2; Psalm 11:6, margin.


Fire comes down from God out of heaven. The earth is broken up. The weapons concealed in its depths are drawn forth. Devouring flames burst from every yawning chasm. The very rocks are on fire. The day has come that shall burn as an oven. The elements melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein are burned up. Malachi 4:1; 2 Peter 3:10. The earth's surface seems one molten mass--a vast, seething 673

lake of fire. It is the time of the judgement and perdition of ungodly men--"the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion." Isaiah 34:8. {GC 672.2}
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The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31.

They "shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1.

Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished “according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit.

His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}




Great Controversy P 486
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter01984.htm


In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation" (Hebrews 9:28), to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away "unto a land not inhabited" (Leviticus 16:22); so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the
486
full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked. [/b]; Thus the great plan of redemption will reach its accomplishment in the final eradication of sin and the deliverance of all who have been willing to renounce evil. {GC 485.3}

does that cancel 109094?

or do they fit together like pieces of a puzzle?

t: does that cancel 109094? or do they fit together like pieces of a puzzle?

M: There is no comparison between the Catholic view of eternal torment and the view she describes above. "Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds."

t: since i am the one who wrote this, i have to wonder which reader is ignoring what.....

No, they do not fit together like a puzzle, that is, they are not describing the same lake of fire. The Catholic view of hellfire is so distorted that it in no way resembles the truth as described in the Bible and the SOP. There are Protestant views that are also so far off the mark that they do not close to the truth.

Do you see the two different descriptions of hellfire as two pieces of the same puzzle? If so, please explain.

1. What does the phrase “His fury upon all their armies” refer too in the text above”?
2. What does the phrase “Suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires” refer to – in the text above?
3. Is it the same as the phrase above “The full penalty of the LAW has been visited ”??
4. When the text speaks of those who “suffer for many days” does this mean all or just some?
5. When the text says that by comparison “he is still to live and suffer on” after all others have perished… is that fair?
6. In the text the argument is made that in this way “the demands of justice have been met” is that really true as you see it?
7. In the text above when it is said that ”punishment is far greater” for Satan than for others suffering there – are ALL punished??

This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph. 4:18; Prov. 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. (DA 764)