Dont say we are sinless and dont say Jesus wasnt perfect. When you start splitting hairs things can get turned around backwards.


Evangelism, page 595, paragraph 2
"We shall meet with false doctrines of every kind, and unless we are acquainted with what Christ has said, and are following His instruction, we shall be led astray. One of the most dangerous of these doctrines is that of false sanctification. There are those who claim to be holy, and yet are breaking God's commandments. Their assertion that they are sinless is false and should not be received. . . .
Another doctrine that will be presented is that all that we have to do is to believe in Christ--to believe that He has forgiven our sins, and that after we are forgiven, it is impossible for us to sin. This is a snare of Satan. It is true that we must believe in Christ. He is our only hope of salvation. But it is also true that we must work out our individual salvation daily in faith, not boastingly but with fear and trembling. We are to use every power of our being in His service, and after we have done our utmost, we are still to regard ourselves as unprofitable servants. Divine power will unite with our efforts, and as we cling to God with the hand of faith, Christ will impart to us His wisdom and His righteousness. Thus, by His grace, we shall be enabled to build upon the sure foundation.-- Manuscript 27, 1886.


The Faith I Live By, page 219, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Walking as Christ Walked
We have before us the highest, holiest example. In thought, word, and deed Jesus was sinless. Perfection marked all that He did. He points us to the path that He trod, saying, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matt. 16:24.


Selected Messages Book 3, page 354, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Sinlessness and Salvation
Only Those Far From Christ Claim Sinlessness. --Why is it that so many claim to be holy and sinless? It is because they are so far from Christ. I have never dared to claim any such a thing. From the time that I was 14 years old, if I knew what the will of God was, I was willing to do it. You never have heard me say I am sinless. Those that get sight of the loveliness and exalted character of Jesus Christ, who was holy and lifted up and His train fills the temple, will never say it. Yet we are to meet with those that will say such things more and more.--Manuscript 5, 1885.

Im sorry, I guess I need to be banned from all forums, I just have less and less patience anymore. Im just so disgusted with everything lately... sorry.

6BC 1118
Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. They testify to their love of Christ by obeying all His precepts (MS 122, 1901). {6BC 1118.10}

This experience is available now, not after years and years of gradually becoming less and less sinful, gradually outgrowing our moral imperfections, slowly swapping our defective traits of character for more virtuous ones.

1 SM 330
When you turn away from the broken cisterns that can hold no water, and in the name of Jesus your Advocate come directly to God, asking for the things you need, the righteousness of Christ will be revealed as your righteousness, the virtue of Christ as your virtue. You will then understand that justification will come alone through faith in Christ; for in Jesus is revealed the perfection of the character of God; in His life is manifested the outworking of the principles of holiness. Through the atoning blood of Christ the sinner is set free from bondage and condemnation; through the perfection of the sinless Substitute and Surety, he may run in the race of humble obedience to all God's commandments. Without Christ he is under the condemnation of the law, always a sinner, but through faith in Christ he is made just before God.

18 MR 96
Justification is the reward of faith in the righteousness of Christ. His imputed righteousness brings everyone who accepts Him as a personal Saviour into conformity to the will of God. His righteousness goes before them. He leads the way, bidding us follow Him. He who follows Christ must live in obedience to the law of God. Sin and holiness cannot unite.

The ability to live without committing sin, with God's help, is certainly available now. It's always been available, since right after sin entered.

But it's a sure thing that those who say they are sinless are light-years away from attaining that status. Those who actually do reach that status will not be running around saying so.

We know that the saints who are still alive after the close of probation will have reached the place where they're living without committing any sin. But witness their attitude at that time:

"...in the time of trouble, if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish, they would be overwhelmed; despair would cut off their faith, and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance. But while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness, they have no concealed wrongs to reveal. Their sins have gone beforehand to judgment and have been blotted out, and they cannot bring them to remembrance."
{GC 620.1}

A deep sense of their unworthiness, even though they'll be living sinlessly at that time. That's a far cry from the practice of going about proclaiming their sinlessness.

John, do you know of anybody on MSDAOL who is claiming to be sinless? It may be tempting to accuse the apostle John, but he wasn't claiming to be sinless, he was merely explaining the truth about born again believers in general.

1 John
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not...
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Also, feeling undone and unworthy isn't the same thing as doubting whether or not the promises of perfection apply to us while we are abiding in Christ. The truth is, we are morally complete, morally sinless, while abiding in Christ, from the moment we experience the miracle of rebirth. Not morally finished or morally mature. Eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our potential to mature more and more in the fruits of the Spirit.

The Bibles speaks to both sides of the coin of worthiness. But being counted worthy of eternal life isn't based on creature merit, it's based on the fact we have cooperated with the plan of salvation, which has as its foundation, Christ and Him crucified.

Luke
20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1 Thessalonians
2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

2 Thessalonians
1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Revelation
3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

We can know, here and now, that we are saved. In the face of God's abundant promises there is no reason for us to doubt our salvation status in Christ. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13. To doubt is to dishonor God.

But here's the tricky part. To know and believe we are saved implies we know the promises of God, the promises of perfection, apply to us now. We do not put them off in the future, as if they only refer to the 144,000 at the end of time, after probation closes. So long as we are connected to Christ, walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, we are morally sinless - just like the Bible says. Obviously, we don't go around claiming to be sinless, the Bible forbids it, but not because it isn't true.

Matthew
5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John
14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Romans
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 Corinthians
2:14 Now thanks [be] unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 John
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[ October 24, 2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

John, you haven't been real clear on this issue. You have objected to some of what I have posted, that's clear, but what is your position? What do you believe? Are we born again with or without our former defective traits of character? If so, then what is an example of an unknown sinful trait of character? Please support your conclusions with the Bible or the SOP. Thank you.

The idea that we are born again morally imperfect, that is, with our former defective traits of character in tact and uncrucified, goes against what the Bible and the SOP teach. The onus is upon those who advocate this idea to back up their assertions with inspired quotes. So far no one has been able to do it. Instead, they have simply stopped posting, assuming that people who believe otherwise are unteachable. Unless there is evidence to support their ideas, the truth requires recognition and insists upon an apology.

6BC 1101
The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again (RH April 12, 1892). {6BC 1101.1}

Am I correct in saying that this isn't the present theological belief of the SDA Church?