In that case you should have a pretty easy time answering these points using IN THE TEXT responses to show that it is the text itself that is making your point.

In the post given one page ago -
http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=109012#Post109012

Questions for the reader.

1. What does the phrase “His fury upon all their armies” refer too in the text above”?
2. What does the phrase “Suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires” refer to – in the text above?
3. Is it the same as the phrase above “The full penalty of the LAW has been visited ”??
4. When the text speaks of those who “suffer for many days” does this mean all or just some?
5. When the text says that by comparison “he is still to live and suffer on” after all others have perished… is that fair?
6. In the text the argument is made that in this way “the demands of justice have been met” is that really true as you see it?
7. In the text above when it is said that ”punishment is far greater” for Satan than for others suffering there – are ALL punished??

I look forward to that response in whatever thread you choose.

in Christ,

Bob

You wrote:



I pointed out that your understanding of the fires of hell is in the 28FB, by pointing out it merely says:



and commented: "There's nothing in here about what you've been sharing (specifically the idea that God supernaturally keeps people alive so that they can be burned alive to pay for their sins)."

Your response is not addressing this point. You should either acknowledge my point, or make some sort of argument that the 27th FB does indeed suggest what you've been saying (specifically the idea that God supernaturally keeps people alive so that they can be burned alive to pay for their sins).

Is it your claim that there exists some fundamentalist group that would not see the above as a reference to fire in the Rev 20?

Or are you arguing that fundamentalists WOULD see this reference to fire and agree that a literal hell is being described here?

in Christ,

Bob

Where are you getting the "God supernaturally keeps people alove so that they can be burned alive" quote on this thread? Or do you want to discuss that topic here?

Or are you saying that if you were ever to answer the set of questions below from the now famous GC 672-673 pages of text so often quoted -- that YOU yourself would be making statements about "those who will be supernaturally kept alive"?


Questions for the reader.

1. What does the phrase “His fury upon all their armies” refer too in the text above”?
2. What does the phrase “Suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires” refer to – in the text above?
3. Is it the same as the phrase above “The full penalty of the LAW has been visited ”??
4. When the text speaks of those who “suffer for many days” does this mean all or just some?
5. When the text says that by comparison “he is still to live and suffer on” after all others have perished… is that fair?
6. In the text the argument is made that in this way “the demands of justice have been met” is that really true as you see it?
7. In the text above when it is said that ”punishment is far greater” for Satan than for others suffering there – are ALL punished??



in Christ,

Bob

is it your understanding of those quotes that God will supernaturally keep some people alive, while they are burning, so that they can be punished, for days, many days even? and satan is still burning long after that....

that is pretty much how it would have to be done since we dont have an immortal soul for one thing. and for another people die in less than a day when set on fire.

perhaps it is something you havent had reason to give a thought to. i know there have been many things i never had to reason to think deeper on.

This is an understatement. Since we're talking about something like molten lava, I doubt a person could last even 10 seconds engulfed in such a fire.



This was definitely the case with me. Before becoming as SDA, I believed in the version described by EGW in GC 536, quoted above. As I perceived the SDA version, it seemed to me to be much more in harmony with how I perceived God's character to be.

Then I thought about how anyone, that is, any Christian, could have such thoughts, and the conclusion I came to is that many just haven't considered it very carefully.

Fundamentalists believe the wicked will be burned by literal fire for all eternity.



No, I wasn't saying anything about fundamentalists. I said there's nothing in the 27th FB about what you've been sharing (specifically the idea that God supernaturally keeps people alive so that they can be burned alive to pay for their sins).

This is assuming you're talking about the post immediately above yours, which I'm assuming is the case, since nothing specific was quoted.

From you. I'm not wishing to discuss whether or not this idea is true on this thread, since we're discussing it elsewhere, but was simply making the point that the 27th FB does not say this (i.e., what you're claiming). To be fair, it's not saying what I claim either. It makes a very short statement that I think any SDA could agree with.



I've addressed these questions on the other thread. No, this certainly isn't something I would say, as I believe God is like Jesus Christ. I think Ellen White's characterizations given in GC 536 apply to the view you're suggesting.

Anyway, to not get into this topic again on this thread, I'll repeat that I'm simply making the point that the 27th FB does not endorse the viewpoint you have.

I was responding to this statement:



Again, AFAIK any SDA would agree with the 27th FB, although many would see things the way I do, as opposed to the way you do (and there are other flavors of belief, so to speak, as well that one could have, and still agree with the 27th FB).

========================================================From Page 1




Bottom line -- the idea that the 28FB implies doubt that this --



Is speaking about fire -- is missing from the document.

The point is that we end up with a very literal version of hell fire in Rev 20 where "real fire burns real people" in a real lake of fire such that God "destroys BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:28 - which is a literal and fundamentalist position on hell that goes farther than many fundamentalist non-SDAs would LIKE to go.

===================================================== End Page 1






In other words - the page 1 quote shows the issue of "fire" being used in the "lake of Fire". That seems clear enough.

You then want to talk about God "supernaturally" keeping people alive -- which gets to the GC 672-673 statements so clear on that point from Ellen White. I am simply asking if you "really" want to have that focused discussion here -- because as we all know it will take us to the set of questions below -- and to date you are reluctant to actually address them using the text of GC 672-673 to which they pertain.


===========================================================
Questions for the reader regarding GC 672-673.

1. What does the phrase “His fury upon all their armies” refer too in the text above”?
2. What does the phrase “Suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires” refer to – in the text above?
3. Is it the same as the phrase above “The full penalty of the LAW has been visited ”??
4. When the text speaks of those who “suffer for many days” does this mean all or just some?
5. When the text says that by comparison “he is still to live and suffer on” after all others have perished… is that fair?
6. In the text the argument is made that in this way “the demands of justice have been met” is that really true as you see it?
7. In the text above when it is said that ”punishment is far greater” for Satan than for others suffering there – are ALL punished??

in Christ,

Bob

The 27th FB quotes from Scripture in saying that fire comes down from God and destroys them. Few Adventists hold the view that you hold, regarding God's burning sinners alive to make them pay for their sins. As I've pointed out, I'm aware of no SDA publication which promotes this idea. Can you point out any? (excepting, of course, the SOP, since this is what we're discussing; however, some SDA publication quoting her to make the points you make would be acceptable.)

You know, it would be nice if instead of making the same untrue accusation if you simply responded to my post which addressed your questions, a point I've made on the thread discussing this subject, so you may respond there please.