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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109210
03/01/09 09:48 PM
03/01/09 09:48 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Regarding #109195, you didn't address #109089.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109220
03/02/09 02:25 PM
03/02/09 02:25 PM
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SDA
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If the title of this thread were less specific then I might be more sympathetic to your unwillingness to answer my question. I created this thread to specifically focus your attention on the question. If Moses wrote anything that clearly explains (as opposed to implies) why Jesus had to die or that animal sacrifices symbolize His death then you should be able to quote it without dragging the NT into the fray. I noticed you did not include clearly in the title. Did it not fit, or why are you including the word now? If inspired writers of the New Testament understood Moses clearly explained things, why wouldn't that imply that Moses did clearly explain things? (I wasn't sure if Pepperwood was talking about Moses)
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: kland]
#109227
03/02/09 04:02 PM
03/02/09 04:02 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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It seems to me that if one has a certain idea in mind as to why Jesus Christ died, and one doesn't see that clearly in Scripture, rather than concluding that Scripture does not clearly teach why Jesus Christ had to die, a more rational reaction would be to result that idea one has in favor of one that can be substantiated by Scripture.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Tom]
#109236
03/02/09 04:44 PM
03/02/09 04:44 PM
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Regarding #109195, you didn't address #109089. If the title of this thread were less specific then I might be more sympathetic to your unwillingness to answer my question. I created this thread to specifically focus your attention on the question. If Moses wrote anything that clearly explains (as opposed to implies) why Jesus had to die or that animal sacrifices symbolize His death then you should be able to quote it without dragging the NT into the fray.
So, no, I do not agree with the premise of your question. I see it as an avoidance tactic. You're not addressing what actually happened. You started this thread, and in the middle of this thread I asked you about Jesus Christ, John and Paul. I didn't expect you to say that they weren't clear either. I asked this question by way of clarification. If you thought they were clear, but Moses wasn't, that would give me a clue as to why you thought Moses was unclear. When you surprisingly answered that you didn't think they were clear, and that none of Scripture was clear, I immediately changed gears. I started a new topic to discuss this, and on this topic I've been pointing out that there's no point in discussing Moses if you can't see this truth from Jesus Christ. I've been asking you what the point is. If you see some point, please let me know. Otherwise, we'll just deal with the other thread. Simply the fact that you started this thread isn't an adequate response, because things changed since the thread started; namely, you assert that neither Jesus Christ, nor John, nor Paul, nor any inspired person save Ellen White clearly explains Christ's death. Again, I disagree with you that if I believe NT authors failed to explain it clearly then I will also reject the idea Moses clearly explained it. You have maintained that Moses clearly explained it and that that's why the NT authors took it for granted. Your unwillingness to quote from the Pentateuch is proof it doesn't clearly explain either point. I am surprised at your cowardly approach here. Normally you are bold in your beliefs and fearless in quoting the Bible to substantiate the truth. But for some unexplainable reason you chickening out here.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109237
03/02/09 04:48 PM
03/02/09 04:48 PM
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1. I noticed you did not include clearly in the title. Did it not fit, or why are you including the word now?
2. If inspired writers of the New Testament understood Moses clearly explained things, why wouldn't that imply that Moses did clearly explain things?
3. (I wasn't sure if Pepperwood was talking about Moses) 1. Yes, space didn't allow it. 2. My point precisely. Where is the evidence Moses wrote it down clearly? 3. I assumed Pepperwood was demonstrating that Moses clearly explained both aspects of the question.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109265
03/02/09 08:40 PM
03/02/09 08:40 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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k:2. If inspired writers of the New Testament understood Moses clearly explained things, why wouldn't that imply that Moses did clearly explain things?
MM:2. My point precisely. Where is the evidence Moses wrote it down clearly? In the fact that inspired writers of the NT understood that Moses clearly explained things.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Tom]
#109299
03/03/09 06:33 PM
03/03/09 06:33 PM
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Tom, that's proof they believed it but not proof Moses recorded it in the Bible. I maintain they understood it through oral tradition not because it is clearly explained in the Pentateuch. Again, your continual unwillingness to post from the Pentateuch passages which clearly explain both aspects of the title question of this thread is proof you know such passages do not exist. Why are you so afraid to admit it?
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109336
03/03/09 11:56 PM
03/03/09 11:56 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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M:Where is the evidence Moses wrote it down clearly?
T:In the fact that inspired writers of the NT understood that Moses clearly explained things.
M:Tom, that's proof they believed it but not proof Moses recorded it in the Bible. The "it" that they believed was that Moses wrote it down clearly. I maintain they understood it through oral tradition not because it is clearly explained in the Pentateuch. For someone who is such a stickler for getting things from inspiration, this is an odd assertion. Nowhere to the Scripture writers assert this (that they got something from Oral Tradition), but many, many times they cite Moses. Again, your continual unwillingness to post from the Pentateuch passages which clearly explain both aspects of the title question of this thread is proof you know such passages do not exist. Why are you so afraid to admit it? What is this, selective amnesia? I've cited things from Moses, as well as from the SOP, as well as telling you where to find more. Since I did this, you asserted that not only Moses, but also Jesus Christ, John, Paul, and Scripture as a whole does not teach clearly that Christ died, but only Ellen White. Given this, I'm not seeing the point of discussing specifically Moses. Is there some point? I've been asking you what the point is. If you see some point, please let me know. Otherwise, we'll just deal with the other thread.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Tom]
#109384
03/04/09 02:47 PM
03/04/09 02:47 PM
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Tom, this is frustrating. You keep insisting you've repeatedly quoted from Pentateuch where Moses clearly explains why Jesus had to die and how the animal sacrifices symbolize His death, and yet in truth you have not posted one single passage from the Pentateuch.
The only thing you posted that even remotely comes close it was when you quoted Paul quoting Moses. Here's what you gave as solid, indisputable, incontrovertible proof that Moses clearly explained both aspects of the title question - "In thee shall all nations be blessed."
Tom, I am completely shocked and totally flabbergasted that you believe with all your heart, mind, body, and soul that this single sentence from Moses clearly explains beyond question why Jesus had to die and that animal sacrifices symbolize His death.
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Re: Where did Moses explain why Jesus had to die or that the animal sacrifices symbolized His death?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109385
03/04/09 02:58 PM
03/04/09 02:58 PM
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What is the point? This thread is an offshoot of one that asks if we can obey God unslavishly if we do not know all the right reasons why. I assumed it was obvious to everyone that Moses did not record in the Pentateuch why Jesus had to die or that animal sacrifices symbolize His death. I assumed everyone realized such knowledge was based on oral tradition and taken for granted in the NT. But then you came along ranting and raving that Moses and many other inspired writers clearly explained both aspects in the Bible. But, lo, you have yet to post a single passage from Moses which fits the bill. Words are cheap. It's high time that you quote from the Pentateuch to prove your claims. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict you are never going to honor my request. Suit yourself.
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