No, it was directed at GC. And, another thing about the plan of salvation that is mysterious and unexplainable is how and why the death of Jesus serves as ransom for sinners, how and why it pays their sin debt of death since He was sinless. How and why does His death satisfy justice? How and why does it clear the guilty? It makes no sense to let a death row criminal go free simply because an innocent, sinless man died in his place. Such an exchange does not serve justice - even if the judge could guarantee society that the criminal will never sin again.


The death of Jesus serves more than merely influencing sinners to repent and obey God. It also serves to satisfy the just and loving demands of law and justice in requiring punishment and death in consequence of sin. Past, pardoned sins cannot be simply dismissed as irrelevant. Punishment and death must happen in consequence of sin. Just because a sinner ceases sinning it doesn't mean the sins he committed in the past are no longer deserving of punishment and death.

GC, I think you are misunderstanding my point. Yes, I agree sinners must consent and cooperate with God for the free gift to benefit them personally. But that's not what I'm addressing. Instead, what I'm asking is - Do we add anything to the work of Jesus when we consent and cooperate with God and experience repentance and righteousness by faith?

Tom, the following passage verifies the truth. Pardon does not cancel out the death sentence. The death of a substitute serves to satisfy justice.

Though there would be found none in Israel to execute the sentence of death upon the anointed of the Lord, David trembled, lest, guilty and unforgiven, he should be cut down by the swift judgment of God. But the message was sent him by the prophet, "The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." Yet justice must be maintained. The sentence of death was transferred from David to the child of his sin. {PP 722.2}

I agree with you this idea you're sharing doesn't make sense. I also agree with you that this idea (at least in the form of a clear explanation of Christ's death) does not exist in Scripture.

So, in order for your idea to be true, it must be the case that:

1.God uses a means to save people which is illogical.
2.God uses a means to save people which isn't clearly explained in Scripture.

When you add to this your ideas regarding how God deals with the wicked in the judgment, you have (what appears to me) a very odd concept of what God is like (and not very attractive). Why not attactive? Because you would have God torture (my word, not yours) and kill people who do not follow an illogical plan He invented which He didn't have clearly explained in Scripture.

Yes, Mike, I think we do. We add our vote before the watching universe for the superiority of Christ's plan. We help to counter His shame upon the cross, for He has not died for us in vain. And we help Him to prove His words that, "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men to me."

So, what we add can be summed up in one word: validity.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

These too:

Consider the Captain of our salvation. He suffered shame for us that we might not suffer everlasting shame and contempt. He suffered on the cross, that mercy might be granted to fallen man. God's justice is preserved, and guilty man is pardoned. Jesus dies that the sinner might live. Shame is borne by the Son of the Highest for the sake of poor sinners, that they might be ransomed and crowned with eternal glory. {TMK 287.3}

But David makes no excuse. Justice points to the broken tablets of the broken law and draws her sword against the transgressor. All apologies or excuses for sin are of no value with God. The sentiment of the soul of David was, Who shall testify to lessen the guilt of the sinner when God testifies against him? God's verdict--guilty--has gone forth, and man cannot erase it. {TSB 179.3}

Says the apostle: "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself." Only as we contemplate the great plan of redemption can we have a just appreciation of the character of God. The work of creation was a manifestation of His love; but the gift of God to save the guilty and ruined race, alone reveals the infinite depths of divine tenderness and compassion. "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." While the law of God is maintained, and its justice vindicated, the sinner can be pardoned. The dearest gift that heaven itself had to bestow has been poured out that God "might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." By that gift men are uplifted from the ruin and degradation of sin to become children of God. Says Paul: "Ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." {5T 739.2}

The brief but terrible history of Ananias and Sapphira is traced by the pen of inspiration for the benefit of all who profess to be the followers of Christ. This important lesson has not rested with sufficient weight upon the minds of our people. It will be profitable for all to thoughtfully consider the nature of the grievous offense for which these guilty ones were made an example. This one marked evidence of God's retributive justice is fearful, and should lead all to fear and tremble to repeat sins which brought such a punishment. Selfishness was the great sin which had warped the characters of this guilty couple. {4T 462.2}

I saw the mercy and compassion of God in giving his Son to die for guilty man. Those who will not choose to accept salvation which has been so dearly purchased for them, must be punished. Beings whom God created have chosen to rebel against his government; but I saw that God did not shut them up in hell to endure endless misery. He could not take them to heaven; for to bring them into the company of the pure and holy would make them perfectly miserable. God will not take them to heaven, neither will he cause them to suffer eternally. He will destroy them utterly, and cause them to be as though they had not been, and then his justice will be satisfied. He formed man out of the dust of the earth, and the disobedient and unholy will be consumed by fire, and return to dust again. I saw that the benevolence and compassion of God in this, should lead all to admire his character, and to adore him; and after the wicked shall be destroyed from off the earth, all the heavenly host will say, Amen! {1SG 118.1}

The work of Jesus was validated by God Himself. How can we improve upon that?

Tom, please comment on each one of the passages I posted to support my view. Each quote clearly say, Yes, to the title question of this thread.

Death comes as a result of sin. The way to remove the death sentence, if one wishes to speak in these terms, is to remove sin.

Tom, did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners? Please explain. Also, I posted many passages which clearly say, Yes, and you haven't responded to them yet. Please do so. Thank you.