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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109891
03/15/09 03:47 PM
03/15/09 03:47 PM
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OP
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#109909
03/15/09 06:14 PM
03/15/09 06:14 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Ellen is pretty clear here that, yes, Jesus had to earn the right to pardon and save us. Yes, and as I've said, I think GC gave a good explanation as to why.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Tom]
#110000
03/16/09 06:01 PM
03/16/09 06:01 PM
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OP
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Ellen gave the reasons why Jesus had to earn the right to pardon and save sinners in the following passages:
[Paul] lifted up Christ as One who hates sin and loves the sinner, the One who bore our sins that He might have full power and authority to impart to us His righteousness. {UL 342.4}
Mere forgiveness of sin is not the sole result of the death of Jesus. He made the infinite sacrifice not only that sin might be removed, but that human nature might be restored, rebeautified, reconstructed from its ruins, and made fit for the presence of God. (3SM 154)
Our salvation was wrought out by infinite suffering to the Son of God. His divine bosom received the anguish, the agony, the pain that the sinfulness of Adam brought upon the race. The heel of Christ was indeed bruised when His humanity suffered, and grief heavier than that which ever oppressed the beings He had created weighed down His soul as He was engaged in paying the vast debt which man owed to God. {HP 44.4}
On the cross of Calvary He paid the redemption price of the race. And thus He gained the right to take the captives from the grasp of the great deceiver, who, by a lie, framed against the government of God, caused the fall of man, and thus forfeited all claim to be called a loyal subject of God's glorious everlasting kingdom. {1SM 309.4}
Had they known that they were putting to torture One who had come to save the sinful race from eternal ruin, they would have been seized with remorse and horror. But their ignorance did not remove their guilt; for it was their privilege to know and accept Jesus as their Saviour. Some of them would yet see their sin, and repent, and be converted. Some by their impenitence would make it an impossibility for the prayer of Christ to be answered for them. Yet, just the same, God's purpose was reaching its fulfillment. Jesus was earning the right to become the advocate of men in the Father's presence. {DA 744.3}
Christ bore all this suffering in order to obtain the right to confer eternal righteousness upon as many as would believe on Him. {TDG 216.4}
To the believer, Christ is the resurrection and the life. In our Saviour the life that was lost through sin is restored; for He has life in Himself to quicken whom He will. He is invested with the right to give immortality. The life that He laid down in humanity, He takes up again, and gives to humanity. {DA 786.4}
Death entered the world because of transgression. But Christ gave His life that man should have another trial. He did not die on the cross to abolish the law of God, but to secure for man a second probation. He did not die to make sin an immortal attribute; He died to secure the right to destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. He suffered the full penalty of a broken law for the whole world. This He did, not that men might continue in transgression, but that they might return to their loyalty and keep God's commandments and His law as the apple of their eye. {TM 134.1}
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110015
03/16/09 07:34 PM
03/16/09 07:34 PM
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There's too many to look at all of these, so let's try the alpha and the omega. Here's the alpha: [Paul] lifted up Christ as One who hates sin and loves the sinner, the One who bore our sins that He might have full power and authority to impart to us His righteousness. {UL 342.4} What is the "full power and authority" speaking of here? This is the very first question I asked on this thread. GC addressed this issue in his posts. He pointed out that the authority is a moral one, on the basis of love. Here's the omega: Death entered the world because of transgression. But Christ gave His life that man should have another trial. He did not die on the cross to abolish the law of God, but to secure for man a second probation. He did not die to make sin an immortal attribute; He died to secure the right to destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. He suffered the full penalty of a broken law for the whole world. This He did, not that men might continue in transgression, but that they might return to their loyalty and keep God's commandments and His law as the apple of their eye. {TM 134.1} Note the underlined portion. How is the devil, who had the power of death, destroyed? 4Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;(Heb. 2:14) You see that the destruction of the devil is related to: 1.Christ's taking our human nature. 2.Christ's death. 3.Delivering those who were in fear of bondage. This isn't a physical destruction, but a destruction of ideas. That is, the devil enslaves us by false idea. He is destroyed (his ability to hold us in bondage) by being exposed. Ellen White eloquently speaks to this point in "It Is Finished" (the chapter in the Desire of Ages which explains the meaning of Christ's death.) Could one sin have been found in Christ, had He in one particular yielded to Satan to escape the terrible torture, the enemy of God and man would have triumphed. Christ bowed His head and died, but He held fast His faith and His submission to God. "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." Rev. 12:10.
Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings. Henceforth his work was restricted. Whatever attitude he might assume, he could no longer await the angels as they came from the heavenly courts, and before them accuse Christ's brethren of being clothed with the garments of blackness and the defilement of sin. The last link of sympathy between Satan and the heavenly world was broken. (DA 761) This is how Satan was destroyed. Notice that the casting down of Satan occurred when he was exposed. This is very significant. In order to understand the casting down of Satan, we need to understand how he wields his power. (Satan) sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. (DA 21) He relied upon deception to gain power. When the deception is unmasked, his power is broken.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Tom]
#110113
03/18/09 02:04 AM
03/18/09 02:04 AM
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OP
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Tom, you seem to have switched gears, changed to a new topic. Do you agree with me that the 8 short passages above, taken as a whole, make it clear that Jesus earned the right to save and pardon sinners and to restore paradise?
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110289
03/20/09 03:36 PM
03/20/09 03:36 PM
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OP
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Yes, Jesus earned the right.
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110294
03/20/09 06:11 PM
03/20/09 06:11 PM
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It's the same subject, MM. I'm explaining how Jesus earned the right. It's similar to what GC wrote.
I think if you proceed along the lines of asking what the problem is that needs to be solved, that's a good way to start. If you look at the DA passages I cited, they point out the problem.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Tom]
#110518
03/26/09 04:54 PM
03/26/09 04:54 PM
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OP
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Tom, the reason Jesus had to suffer and die to earn the right to pardon and save sinners and to punish and destroy the wicked is because law and justice demand death for sin. This aspect of law and justice cannot be dismissed simply because sinners cease to sin.
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#110520
03/26/09 04:58 PM
03/26/09 04:58 PM
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Active Member 2012
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I think GC did a good job explaining what this means.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Did Jesus have to earn the right to pardon and save sinners?
[Re: Tom]
#110556
03/26/09 10:28 PM
03/26/09 10:28 PM
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OP
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GC agrees with me. Do you agree with him?
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