Please repost the passages you believe proves Jesus taught He will not punish and "directly kill" (as opposed to what?) the wicked at the end of time. Here are the passages I believe teach He will use literal fire to punish and destroy the wicked:

Matthew
3:12 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew
5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew
8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew
10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew
13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew
18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew
22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

Matthew
24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
24:49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,
24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew
25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strowed:
25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strowed:
25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.
25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew
25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
25:42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark
9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke
12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Luke
17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

John
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.


The passages above reflect teachings that Jesus did not demonstrate while He was here in the flesh. For example, Jesus did not use fire to punish the wicked while He was here.


He taught the truth about mercy and justice, which are opposites sides of the same coin. I have the following insights in mind:

The long-suffering of God is wonderful. Long does justice wait while mercy pleads with the sinner. . . Even now they have almost exceeded the bounds of the long-suffering of God, the limits of His grace, the limits of His mercy. {COL 177.5}

Were there no justice, no penalty, there would be no stability to the government of God. {AG 70.3}

Grace and mercy will then descend from the throne, and justice will take their place. {LDE 240.3}

In all the Bible, God is presented not only as a Being of mercy and benevolence, but as a God of strict and impartial justice. {LDE 240.4}

In what sense did Jesus, while He was here, exercise the kind of justice described in the following passages:

The long-suffering of God is wonderful. Long does justice wait while mercy pleads with the sinner. . . Even now they have almost exceeded the bounds of the long-suffering of God, the limits of His grace, the limits of His mercy. {COL 177.5}

Were there no justice, no penalty, there would be no stability to the government of God. {AG 70.3} Grace and mercy will then descend from the throne, and justice will take their place. {LDE 240.3}

In all the Bible, God is presented not only as a Being of mercy and benevolence, but as a God of strict and impartial justice. {LDE 240.4} This one marked evidence of God's retributive justice is fearful, and should lead all to fear and tremble to repeat sins which brought such a punishment. {CC 330.2}

And the very fact of His reluctance to execute justice testifies to the enormity of the sins that call forth His judgments and to the severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor. {CC 155.4}

The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}

Justice requires that men shall have light, and it also requires that he who refuses to walk in the Heaven-given light, the giving of which cost the death of the Son of God, must receive punishment. It is a principle of justice that the guilt of the sinner shall be proportionate to the knowledge given, but not used, or used in a wrong way. {HP 153.3}

Let's deal with one thing at a time. Here you claim that Christ did not demonstrate justice. I cited Scriptures showing that He did. Do you now agree that Jesus Christ did demonstrate justice? After dealing with this, we can look at your new question (which is asking if Jesus Christ "exercised", as opposed to "revealed" a specific aspect of justice, a far less strong implied assertion than the one you actually made).

Tom, all along I've been talking about the type of justice described in the passages posted above. How long have you been assuming I was referring to justice as it relates to fairness and equity?

PS - To address your point - Yes, I believe Jesus demonstrated fairness and equity while here.

"Justice" is not simply fairness and equity. The word "justice" in the Greek is the same word translated in English as "righteousness."

The Scriptural idea of "justice" is setting things right, of restoring the covenant community to shalom.

You're speaking of retributive justice, and we've already spoken of this at length. The cursing of the fig tree is an example of Christ's teaching this principle.

Did God ever curse a fig tree in the OT? Do you know of time when Jesus, while here, exercised retributive justice on full-cup sinners like God did in the OT?

Regarding the time Jesus cursed the fig tree. Do you see an organic relationship between sin and death in this case? That is, do you think the tree's sin is what caused the tree to wither and die so quickly? This assumes, of course, the tree is symbolic of sinners. What I'm asking is how you see this event illustrating the organic nature of what sinners will experience at the end of time.

He did the same thing in principle. The cursing of the fig tree was an acted out parable.



This has been my point. God, in the OT, acted like Jesus Christ in the New. You've misunderstood God's actions in the OT (IMO, of course). I've been suggesting formulating a model of God's character based on Jesus Christ first, and then go back to look at the OT. Perhaps, if you did this, you might view these actions in a different light.

However, you seem predisposed to do the reverse, which is to interpret Jesus Christ's actions according to the understandings you already have of God's OT actions. Even holy angels were not able to completely rightly divide things until Christ came along.

Jesus said the things He did is what He saw His Father do, and the things He spoke is what He heard His Father speak. So Jesus was saying, "When you See Me, you've seen the Father."

There's no difference.

The reason *we* perceive a difference is we don't have the eye salve that Jesus had. We perceive Jesus to have acted differently, but Jesus didn't perceive things this way.

So who's right? We, or Jesus?



The death of which sin is the inevitable result is the second death. This is the result of moral decisions, so it doesn't apply to trees.



It was an acted out parable of the destruction of Jerusalem. The principle is spelled out here:



Here she comments on the destruction of Jerusalem:



You can see she quotes the same text, "Thou hast destroyed thyself."

So the cursing of the fig tree was an acted out parable of the destruction to come upon Jerusalem if they continued on the course they were on. As the fig tree caused Christ to withdraw, resulting in its nourishment being retracted (note the fig tree died due to a withering of the roots; it was not smitten by a bolt of lightening, for example) so Jerusalem caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them.

MM: "Here are the passages I believe teach He will use literal fire to punish and destroy the wicked:"

So how does that text mean He will use literal fire to punish and destroy the wicked?



You were talking about the reverse of Jesus acting differently. Tom questioned you on this. You confirmed that you really meant this. I asked you clearly which you then rejected. Now you are talking about mercy and justice (though not as the Bible means). So, are you talking about the reverse of acting and teaching differently or are you talking about the reverse of mercy and justice?

You don't mean to say that the reverse of not using force and commanding others to kill sinners is mercy and justice are you? If by some strange twist of logic you are, could you explain how they are the reverse and how that would be a logical conclusion? As in, if someone asks you what is the reverse of Jesus not calling hellfire and brimstone on sinners, would it be appropriate for you to answer, mercy and justice?

No hellfire, no brimstone ===reverse===> mercy and justice?

God withdrew His protection and permitted millions of mothers and infants and children to suffer and die in the Flood. And this is how Jesus treated them in the NT?

God withdrew His protection and permitted thousands of first born infants and children and youth and adults to die in Egypt. And this is how Jesus treated them in the NT?

God commanded His holy and chosen people to kill sinners by sword and stoning. And this is how Jesus treated them in the NT?

PS - I hadn't thought to ask this before - Do you think these kinds of OT stories are merely parables? Or, do you think they literally happened?

PPS - Comparing the death of a fig tree to the events mentioned above doesn't cut it for me. I see no similarities.