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Re: What causes sinners to suffer and die at the end of time? [Re: Mountain Man] #110725
03/29/09 02:52 PM
03/29/09 02:52 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Tom, quoting all the familiar passages from DA addresses the what but not the how. My question pertains to how the loving traits and attributes of God's character causes sinners to suffer and die. What physical mechanics are at work?


Trying to understand the physical mechanics of what happens I don't think is very beneficial.

Quote:
For example, please explain to me how you think "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance" causes sinners to suffer and die.


The glory of God will destroy the wicked. The glory of God is His character. His character is "love, joy, peace, etc."

Quote:
"Only the pure in heart could abide in His presence." Are you suggesting this insight explains how and why the loving traits and attributes of Jesus' character caused sinners to suffer and die?


No. Please look at the question you asked and how I answered that question in quoting this reference.

Quote:
"Christ suffered the death of the wicked, but the fire involved is not the fire we think of, like one you can light with a match, but the consuming fire which is God when He comes in contact with sin." How will the loving traits and attributes of God's character cause sinners to suffer and die?


It looks to me like you're asking the wrong question. What's the right question? "How does sin cause sinners to suffer and die?"

Quote:
Why doesn't it cause Satan to suffer and die when he's in the presence of God?


Is Satan in the presence of God?

We know that if God left Satan to reap the full result of his sin he would perish, because death is the inevitable result of sin. God doesn't leave Satan to his fate until the judgment.

Quote:
How does God prevent His character from killing sinners?


His glory is shrouded.

Quote:
How does He prevent sin from killing sinners?


By His grace.

Quote:
PS - Please refrain from quoting the passages that say it will happen. Please post passages that address my questions. Thank you.


The same passages which say it will happen answer your questions. For example:

Quote:
But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked.

[quote] In all who submit to His power the Spirit of God will consume sin. But if men cling to sin, they become identified with it. Then the glory of God, which destroys sin, must destroy them. Jacob, after his night of wrestling with the Angel, exclaimed, "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Gen. 32: 30.

Jacob had been guilty of a great sin in his conduct toward Esau; but he had repented. In the time of John the Baptist, Christ was about to appear as the revealer of the character of God. His very presence would make manifest to men their sin. Only as they were willing to be purged from sin could they enter into fellowship with Him. Only the pure in heart could abide in His presence. (DA 107, 108)


The principles involved are right here.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What causes sinners to suffer and die at the end of time? [Re: Mountain Man] #110729
03/29/09 02:58 PM
03/29/09 02:58 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Regarding the wicked being burned up,

Quote:
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.(Rev. 21:1)


This makes clear they're will be a new earth. What happened to the old earth? It was purified by fire.

Quote:
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. (2 Peter 3:7 RSV)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: What causes sinners to suffer and die at the end of time? [Re: Tom] #110904
03/30/09 11:06 PM
03/30/09 11:06 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
The glory of God will destroy the wicked. The glory of God is His character. His character is "love, joy, peace, etc."

So, are you saying it is the kind and loving attributes of God's character that will destroy the wicked at the end of the time? Or, do you believe sin will destroy them?

Re: What causes sinners to suffer and die at the end of time? [Re: Mountain Man] #110915
03/30/09 11:55 PM
03/30/09 11:55 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
From DA 764:

Quote:
By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.


Please note particularly the first sentence.

The problem is not with God, nor with His attributes, but with the "life of rebellion" which cause the wicked to "place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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